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RobH
Joined: 20 Apr 2010 Posts: 247 Location: Chester
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Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 21:02 Post subject: Camber angle massively wrong |
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Hi guys, got a bit of a problem with the steering geometry.
All four corners have been making unwanted noises for a while, probably no thanks to all the speed bumps I have to negotiate on the daily commute.
I have to replace the drop links every year to stop them clunking. Also replaced the anti roll bar bushes this time in the Hope of the links lasting a bit longer. My mechanic has also replaced the top passenger side wishbone due to a worn top ball joint and the damper unit and wishbone actually rubbing together in some circumstances- making a dreadful creaking noise.
The above work was supposed to improve matters but it’s left the front wheel camber on the passenger side visibly wrong, pointing in relatively steeply at the top. The suspension and wishbone are still rubbing together.
I took it to a 4 wheel laser alignment service today, they put max adjustment on the camber and it’s still way out. They aren’t sure what is wrong, suggestions were chassis damage (not happened in the 6 years I’ve owned it and wasn’t an issue until a couple of years ago), incorrect sized wishbone (too short, it was a new unit from milners so should be okay) they also noticed the pass side ride height adjuster was not located properly in its housing when compared to the driver side, could this be the cause?? This would have been disconnected/ re connected during wishbone install.
Anyone got any other pearls of wisdom please?
Thanks, RobH |
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Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 21:02 Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join! |
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RobH
Joined: 20 Apr 2010 Posts: 247 Location: Chester
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Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 21:16 Post subject: |
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I should probably add it’s a 2002 L400 3.0L petrol. |
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Green Grouch Lifetime member
Joined: 14 Feb 2012 Posts: 1264 Location: Dorset
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Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 22:14 Post subject: |
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I fitted a milner upper control arm earlier this year.
I did a post some where.
Basically the studding that held in the bushes, was too long, and rubbed on the horseshoe thing that connected it to the torsion bar..
I ended up cutting the studding down approx 5 mm, to clear, which sorted that screech, but the bushes are now making noises.
I've been busy, but have refurbed the original control arm with febest bushes, and will attempt to get a refund for the milners unit.
It's just not fit for purpose. _________________ A Little Knowledge is Dangerous and expensive! especially if your me Mending anything!! |
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Green Grouch Lifetime member
Joined: 14 Feb 2012 Posts: 1264 Location: Dorset
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Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 22:45 Post subject: |
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Ps, I also noticed that the torsion bar adjuster location anchor, could be very easily mis positioned.
It didn't seem to be as big, a the drivers side location anchor?
I did think that it could be located wrongly quite easily? _________________ A Little Knowledge is Dangerous and expensive! especially if your me Mending anything!! |
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Lewis Site Admin
Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 16299 Location: Huddersfield
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:30 Post subject: Re: Camber angle massively wrong |
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RobH wrote: |
……. My mechanic has also replaced the top passenger side wishbone due to a worn top ball joint and the damper unit and wishbone actually rubbing together in some circumstances……….
……..it’s left the front wheel camber on the passenger side visibly wrong, pointing in relatively steeply at the top. The suspension and wishbone are still rubbing together.
……..they also noticed the pass side ride height adjuster was not located properly in its housing when compared to the driver side, could this be the cause?? This would have been disconnected/ re connected during wishbone install.
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From Those comments I get the impression that when the wishbone was replaced the Torsion bars were not re-indexed, Possibly with the bar not even being wound up. After doing it then the vehicle should have been taken in fir a full suspension alignment.
I suggest that both torsion bars are reindexed, as per this post:- http://www.MDOCUK.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32173 _________________
Copyright is retained for all my photos. Please don't copy them without asking permission
Do not blindly go where the path may lead you. Go where there is no path and leave a trail that others may follow!
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RobH
Joined: 20 Apr 2010 Posts: 247 Location: Chester
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:44 Post subject: |
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Great info! Thanks for that Green Grouch and Lewis.
Please excuse my ignorance of steering/suspension terms, I've always stayed away from meddling with these components until now. I'm assuming the torsion bars are what the alignment centre referred to as 'ride height adjusters'.
It's going back to the mechanic who fitted the new wishbone this week so he can have another look, armed with this new information. I suspect the problem was there before he replaced the wishbone and he's put it back together as it was before - hence nothing has changed, it was rubbing before and it's rubbing the same now, only difference is it's making more noise because there's more metal to wear away on the new wishbone...
Cheers
H |
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Green Grouch Lifetime member
Joined: 14 Feb 2012 Posts: 1264 Location: Dorset
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:16 Post subject: |
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Below is the Stud in the control arm that rubs on the inner of the horseshoe, I cut mine down with a grinder
Next is the Horseshoe/Bracket that connects the torsion bar to the control arm. Mote the shiney scratch caused by the stud. This makes quite a nasty noise as it rubs
_________________ A Little Knowledge is Dangerous and expensive! especially if your me Mending anything!! |
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Lewis Site Admin
Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 16299 Location: Huddersfield
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:28 Post subject: |
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RobH wrote: |
Please excuse my ignorance of steering/suspension terms, ..... I'm assuming the torsion bars are what the alignment centre referred to as 'ride height adjusters'. |
No Such thing as ignorance when you have no experience of something. Ignorance is not learning from experiences you have.
The Torsion bar is effectively the front suspension spring. The bar connects via a saddle shaped bracket to the wishbone and holds it adjusted position by putting torsion on the wishbone, from the twisting bar.
Item 7 is the saddle. Item 3 is the bar, with splined ends to fit to the saddle and item 4, which is the adjuster. Turning the bolt (items 8 - 10) moves another saddle up and down the threaded bolt. That turns item 4 and adjust the height of the wishbone. As the wishbone is raised or lowered it correspondingly moves the lower wishbone and the wheel hub in wards and outwards, thus increasing or lowering the height of the front end.
The noise you are hearing appears to be be from the end of the supplied bolt, which goes through the rubber bush of the wishbone, being fractionally too long, so it is rubbing on the inside of the saddle, as per Green Grouch's photos, as the wishbone moves up and down with the terrain.
HTH
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Copyright is retained for all my photos. Please don't copy them without asking permission
Do not blindly go where the path may lead you. Go where there is no path and leave a trail that others may follow!
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RobH
Joined: 20 Apr 2010 Posts: 247 Location: Chester
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 14:06 Post subject: |
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I'll tell the man to check the stud isn't catching.
Lewis, number 11 in the diagram is not properly located in its slot in the chassis on the passenger side, it's clear to see it's sitting at an angle whereas the driver side is flat.
The rubbing/creaking I was experiencing and trying to resolve with the new wishbone is located 'inside' the wishbone 'C' shape (hopefully I've managed to attach an image showing location). It was plain to see there was/is no clearance and a small amount of metal has been scored and worn away.
[img]https://www.dropbox.com/home/public?preview=wishbone-rub.png[/img] |
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RobH
Joined: 20 Apr 2010 Posts: 247 Location: Chester
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Lewis Site Admin
Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 16299 Location: Huddersfield
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 14:15 Post subject: |
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I can't see your image as the image is not a jpg.
The only 'rubbing/creaking from inside the wishbone shape I have heard before is a rubber bush, usually from lack of lube in the rubber.
This image shows how the passenger side threaded bolt saddle (item 11) should be:-
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Copyright is retained for all my photos. Please don't copy them without asking permission
Do not blindly go where the path may lead you. Go where there is no path and leave a trail that others may follow!
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Green Grouch Lifetime member
Joined: 14 Feb 2012 Posts: 1264 Location: Dorset
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 14:28 Post subject: |
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I can see your image.
I think that is indexed totally wrong, and needs starting again from scratch as the control arm must be hanging far too low? _________________ A Little Knowledge is Dangerous and expensive! especially if your me Mending anything!! |
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Lewis Site Admin
Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 16299 Location: Huddersfield
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 14:39 Post subject: |
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Ah I can see that image. The only item in that area which could be catching is the top part of the shock absorber!
Green Grouch what image are you referring to, as I cannot see any image by Rob showing indexing > _________________
Copyright is retained for all my photos. Please don't copy them without asking permission
Do not blindly go where the path may lead you. Go where there is no path and leave a trail that others may follow!
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Green Grouch Lifetime member
Joined: 14 Feb 2012 Posts: 1264 Location: Dorset
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 14:49 Post subject: |
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I'm looking at the Dropbox link. 👍 _________________ A Little Knowledge is Dangerous and expensive! especially if your me Mending anything!! |
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Green Grouch Lifetime member
Joined: 14 Feb 2012 Posts: 1264 Location: Dorset
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 14:50 Post subject: |
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Ps, I think your first suggestions were correct Lewis. It must be massively out on adjustment _________________ A Little Knowledge is Dangerous and expensive! especially if your me Mending anything!! |
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RobH
Joined: 20 Apr 2010 Posts: 247 Location: Chester
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 17:47 Post subject: |
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Lewis wrote: |
Ah I can see that image. The only item in that area which could be catching is the top part of the shock absorber! |
That's precisely what is catching. I'll ask my mechanic to reindex the torsion bar(s). It's the 'front suspension upper torsion bar anchor' that's mis located I believe.
Thanks again.. |
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Green Grouch Lifetime member
Joined: 14 Feb 2012 Posts: 1264 Location: Dorset
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 19:03 Post subject: |
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It can be hard getting the issue across, when we've all had different issues!
So many variables that can go wrong.
So many different ways of doing things.!
I can totally see how the adjuster anchor has not aligned properly, from doing mine.
It's really easy to do with the correct instructions.
Would be good to hear on your progress when this is sorted, and how the Milner control arm is, and does it fit, without the stud rubbing etc.
Also, how the bushes in it sound.
Let us know your progress. 👍 _________________ A Little Knowledge is Dangerous and expensive! especially if your me Mending anything!! |
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RobH
Joined: 20 Apr 2010 Posts: 247 Location: Chester
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 19:39 Post subject: |
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Will be sure to report back when (if!?) the issue is resolved. |
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RobH
Joined: 20 Apr 2010 Posts: 247 Location: Chester
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 18:13 Post subject: |
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okay. It’s been looked at today. It appears that the displaced torsion bar anchor point was to blame for the camber. However it still creaks and squeaks terribly over bumps (bushes?) makes a bit of an intermittent rumble/growl from the left when turning right and the power steering also appears to make a rattling/humming noise when turning right (it always did this at full lock but not as loud and now doing it with a gentle right.
Not happy |
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Green Grouch Lifetime member
Joined: 14 Feb 2012 Posts: 1264 Location: Dorset
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 18:17 Post subject: |
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I bet some of the squeak is from that milner wishbone ( was it the upper control arm?)
Mines done it from new. 😔 _________________ A Little Knowledge is Dangerous and expensive! especially if your me Mending anything!! |
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