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Oil leak help......rear cam cover seal housing


 
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richjp



Joined: 22 Jan 2018
Posts: 85
Location: Walthamstow

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:07    Post subject: Oil leak help......rear cam cover seal housing Reply with quote

Hi all, I have a 3.0l petrol and it has sprung a new oil leak. It has previously had the rocker gasket done and this time I am being told by the garage it is the rear cam cover seal housing and that to fix this the engine needs dropping out. I have some questions (very inexperienced mechanically btw):

- can someone point me to where the rear cam cover seal housing is (on the workshop manuals)??
- is the only way to fix this to drop out the engine?
- is the rocker cover and cam cover the same thing on the petrol?
- could the rear cam cover seal housing have been damaged replacing the rocker cover gasket?

Any help, suggestions etc very much appreciated.....

Rich
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Lewis
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you positive they said rear cam cover seal and not Rear Crankshaft seal ?
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richjp



Joined: 22 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah - I just double-checked the message and they say 'The oil leak is I think the rear cam cover seal housing'. They sent me some pics but didn't point me to exactly what I should be looking at in them. I'll try and post them here later today.

If it was the rear crankshaft seal instead could you point me to that in the petrol workshop manual? Maybe I can compare to the pics.........
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richjp



Joined: 22 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 14:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

A little update from the garage:

"To get at this housing you have to drop the engine

We have done one three years ago.

It’s approx 16-24 hours work

The housing is on top of the engine right against bulkhead "

Does this sound like rear cam cover leak housing? What do you all think of oil leak stop stuff - worth putting some in the oil to see if this fixes the leak rather than spending a lot of ££ dropping out the engine? I would say it is a small/medium leak - it drips a lot but never enough to need top it up after long journeys.
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Andy W



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a rear crank shaft seal leaking so am going through the options as the costs are so high and I'm not relishing doing it myself.  The Aussie forum is recommending an additive product called AT-205 Stop-Leak; it's got good reviews but I'm going to have to do some research and thinking about it as I'm not sure about these sorts of additives but it does look like possible option.
Andy
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andyman



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

richjp Is it possible to get a small mirror-on-a-stick into a position to see what is happening at the back of the cam/rocker/valve cover?(all the same thing!) If you can get hold of a Haynes Mitsubishi Pajero 1983 thru 1996, it has good information and diagrams on the V6 engines, including where the cover gasket needs to have RTV sealant applied where they meet with the cam seals at the ends.

Can you estimate the rate of oil loss? Is it leaving a few drips underneath after a drive, or a pool? If you leave it idling for five minutes, how much drips out? (put a catch tray underneath).

How much oil do you have to replace per 100 or per 1,000 miles? According to my manual, if correctly fitted, the gasket/seal is meant to fit into a groove running around the bottom edge of the cover, so unless damaged or badly fitted, should not leak badly. I don't know whether you can get your fingers around the back of the two covers to compare the joint lines, to see if there are any places where the gasket is badly fitted- in which case it is the garage's fault that fitted it.

From the manual, the single camshaft engines have each cover held down by two bolts, one at each end, running through a rubber seal on the cover. If yours is like this, check it's not leaking around these seals and that the bolts are not loose (but don't overtighten them). If you have a torque wrench, it should be set to 9Nm

The double cam engines have eight or ten bolts (can't tell from the manual diagram, but three along each side, and two on at least one end) around the perimeter of each cover which pass through the cover gasket, so don't need a sealing rubber grommet like the single cam models, but again, all these bolts should be checked for tightness, and in sequence to ensure even pressure on the cover and gasket, torque setting 3Nm or 4Nm. Hopefully all bolts are accessible without too much disassembly.

If you think it will make the journey, we are having a 25th anniversary /big fixing/laning/ camping meet in Staffs first weekend in July (see Club Events on here)  If you can make it, just PM me the details requested, and I'll book you in.
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richjp



Joined: 22 Jan 2018
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Location: Walthamstow

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

So is rear cam shaft seal and rear crankshaft seal the same thing?

Because of the high costs to drop out the engine I have gone for a thicker oil plus an additive similar to what you have mentioned Andy. Needs 500 miles driving to work apparently. I’ve done ~150 back from the garage and I still have a drip so 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻
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richjp



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

andyman thanks a lot for your post that is all really great information! I will try and get hold of the Haynes. I have tried looking with a flexible camera (I don’t have a mirror) but can’t work out exactly what I’m looking at (newbie here and not yet mechanically minded enough).

I would say it is somewhere between a few drips and a small pool after a long drive, very little if just left idling. So it is not a massive massive leak but still bad. I’ve been driving it a lot and only felt the need to top up once (and it was not dangerously low just clearly lost a bit).

Intriguing to read (if I understood what you meant) that it may be possible to seal from the outside rather than dropping the engine. I'll see if the thicker oil/additive helps and go from there (unless you say one should steer well clear of those oil depart additives?!).

I really wanted to come first weekend in July but don’t think I can make it due to other commitments. Let me see if I can get out of them. Will PM if I can!
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Lewis
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy W The crankshaft (2.8TD 4M40 engine) seal is larger than you expect. No amount of stop leak additive is going to prevent oil draining through that when it gets pushed out. Worse case scenario is a huge pool of oil on the floor and running down the road, until it eventually runs out of oil and siezes.  I assume the V6 Petrol (6G72) will be similar.




In a garage where they have a gearbox trolley, which is a cradle on a telescopic wheeled stand, then it is easy to do the job.
Mitsu garages glass it as a 14 hour job, taking two working days, as they remove the front end of the Deli and pull the engine out. Labour alone would have been £90'ish and hour plus VAT, for two mechanics.

v8 rick (RIP) used to do it on his back at the side of the road, or wherever the Deli was, using a proper sized trolley jack. Charging £360'ish - including his travellingtime and fuel. Worktime was around six hours.

Having mine done he showed me what to do, on my second Deli (the 'Yorkshire Warrior'). That put me in good stead for having to do it on my current (third) Deli, part up a mountain in Spain, after eventually getting the seal from MitziBitz, as the local Mitsi garage twice failed to get the correct one.


Luckily the 4M40 engine flywheel inspection panel has enough of an opening to let you undo the bolts holding it to the torque converter, so the gearbox and engine can be seperated:-




Worse case scenario is having to put the gearbox on the ground as your 'borrowed' two ton trolley jack had to be returned at the end of the day and your not finished.  Crying or Very sad


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Andy W



Joined: 03 May 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 15:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll pick your brains next weekend Lewis, buying a transmission jack for £130 would be an idea to make life easier and then selling it after I guess.
Andy
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richjp



Joined: 22 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 14:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I am still losing oil despite doing a full change for thicker oil and adding an oil seal regenerator additive.

andyman wrote:
richjp Is it possible to get a small mirror-on-a-stick into a position to see what is happening at the back of the cam/rocker/valve cover?(all the same thing!) If you can get hold of a Haynes Mitsubishi Pajero 1983 thru 1996, it has good information and diagrams on the V6 engines, including where the cover gasket needs to have RTV sealant applied where they meet with the cam seals at the ends.


Before buying this Haynes can I just confirm this is the right one for a 2003 V6 Delica engine - the 6G72? I will try and have a better look with a mirror/bendy camera once I have the manual and know what I am looking at better.

andyman wrote:
Can you estimate the rate of oil loss? Is it leaving a few drips underneath after a drive, or a pool? If you leave it idling for five minutes, how much drips out? (put a catch tray underneath). How much oil do you have to replace per 100 or per 1,000 miles?


Despite the thicker oil/additive I would estimate since mid-June I have done 800 miles and lost about a third (~2L?) of the oil judging by the dipstick. Underneath after a long journey is more than a few drips but less than a pool. I will do an idling test sometime this week with a proper drip tray.

andyman wrote:
If you think it will make the journey, we are having a 25th anniversary /big fixing/laning/ camping meet in Staffs first weekend in July (see Club Events on here)  If you can make it, just PM me the details requested, and I'll book you in.


It is a shame I still have this leak after the additive and that I couldn't make this club event. So long as the leak doesn't get significantly worse I am assuming it is okay to keep driving so long as I have oil with me. Long trip to Europe planned for Sep..........and won't have this fixed by then.

Thanks again for all the other information about the seals/bolts.
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richjp



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 15:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apologies about the large images - I pasted wrong link (and same link twice but can't delete/edit my post). Here is is the before/after again:

Before:


800 miles after:

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andyman



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 18:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Richjp. I don't know enough to advise you further, but the go-to people who can, for anything Mitsubishi 4x4, are DSP Mechanic of Brierly Hill, West Midlands. Darryl and his very experienced colleagues have a very good rep, are Mitsy fanatics - Darryl has both a L400 and a Pajero himself. I know it's probably 150 miles from you, and a return train trip when you leave it with him, but if you value your Deli (and you don't want to be worrying about it and losing three Litres of oil or more per 1,000 miles on your tour), it could be the best time and money you could spend, and he'll tell you if there's anything else you might need to sort while he's in there. Google DSP Mechanics and choose how you want to contact them; better sooner than later. He is no relative, and I have never met him or used his services, but as said, people who have, rate him highly.
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richjp



Joined: 22 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 18:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey andyman,

So you think the before/after photos is a three litre loss? I wasn't sure how many litres are indicated on the min/max of a Deli dipstick.

I already know DSP/Darryl really well and he has done a few smaller jobs for me already. He is amazing - can't recommend him more highly to everyone (worth the round trip for sure).

Problem is he can't do anything on my engine because of the LPG conversion. So I can currently only take it to WMM in Worcester who are the garage involved during the purchase and also the LPG install. They say the cam seal needs engine dropping and can't do it until end of the year after my trip. So I may try locally (good garage near me who are happy to work on Deli's it seems).
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