View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
oukie
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 67 Location: FIFE
|
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 21:37 Post subject: Speaker replacement |
|
|
Hi, Can I replace all my speakers, But keep the original head unit as I have a working MMSC unit with modern Mitsi 10 disc changer,
Also would it be okay to use all the original wiring
I really just want to replace the speakers.
Chris |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Google Sponsor
|
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 21:37 Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join! |
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
alex3025
Joined: 26 Nov 2011 Posts: 300 Location: Torrox Spain, Falkirk before that
|
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 21:43 Post subject: |
|
|
Think you may have to swop wire because Mitsubishi use a common ground 8-)
Ps where are you in fife I'm just across the river in falkirk _________________ "Understeer" is when you hit the fence with the front of the car. "Oversteer" is when you hit the fence with the rear of the car. "Horsepower" is how fast you hit the fence. "Torque" is how far you take the fence with you. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Yojimbo
Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 1202 Location: Bucks
|
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 21:56 Post subject: |
|
|
don't most vehicles use common ground? Or am I interpreting it as something else? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
oukie
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 67 Location: FIFE
|
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 21:58 Post subject: |
|
|
Hi Near Glenrothes
I'm not the only L400 round here either I have seen two others several times within a few miles of my house.
Chris |
|
Back to top |
|
|
theFleured Lifetime member
Joined: 11 Jul 2012 Posts: 1810 Location: Newbury
|
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:05 Post subject: |
|
|
You would be much better off replacing the speaker wires.
The resistances of the original speakers are weird and you'll damage your new ones if you use the existing wiring. _________________
"The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their validity." - Abraham Lincoln |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Yojimbo
Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 1202 Location: Bucks
|
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:21 Post subject: |
|
|
theFleured wrote: |
You would be much better off replacing the speaker wires.
The resistances of the original speakers are weird and you'll damage your new ones if you use the existing wiring. |
That doesn't sound right at all, and I'm going to try and not sound like a pedantic ass, but if I do, my apologies, the impedance of the original speakers will be within somewhat normal range for speakers I am sure, but speaker wire resistance isn't a huge factor unless they are so thin that they actually have some resistance. While they may exhibit some impedance, I would expect it to be negligible at audio frequencies, and more to the point I expect the wire was chosen due to its cost rather than obscure characteristics like that. While I agree that replacing the wire will probably be better, simply because it's thicker, i see no way in which you will damage anything by using the original wiring. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
theFleured Lifetime member
Joined: 11 Jul 2012 Posts: 1810 Location: Newbury
|
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:26 Post subject: |
|
|
Yojimbo wrote: |
theFleured wrote: |
You would be much better off replacing the speaker wires.
The resistances of the original speakers are weird and you'll damage your new ones if you use the existing wiring. |
That doesn't sound right at all, and I'm going to try and not sound like a pedantic ass, but if I do, my apologies, the impedance of the original speakers will be within somewhat normal range for speakers I am sure, but speaker wire resistance isn't a huge factor unless they are so thin that they actually have some resistance. While they may exhibit some impedance, I would expect it to be negligible at audio frequencies, and more to the point I expect the wire was chosen due to its cost rather than obscure characteristics like that. While I agree that replacing the wire will probably be better, simply because it's thicker, i see no way in which you will damage anything by using the original wiring. |
You're right, it doesn't sound right but I'm pretty sure that at least one of the speakers is 6 Ohm, if you put a 2 Ohm speaker (pretty standard) in it's place then it will get damaged.
The reason it doesn't sound right is that Japanese car electricians are nutters _________________
"The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their validity." - Abraham Lincoln |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Yojimbo
Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 1202 Location: Bucks
|
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:40 Post subject: |
|
|
theFleured wrote: |
You're right, it doesn't sound right but I'm pretty sure that at least one of the speakers is 6 Ohm, if you put a 2 Ohm speaker (pretty standard) in it's place then it will get damaged.
The reason it doesn't sound right is that Japanese car electricians are nutters |
No, it won't, not unless what is driving it is unsuitable, and that is not related to the cable that feeds it. If you have crossovers or an amp or a stereo that is set up to feed a 6 ohm speaker in that position, a 2 ohm speaker might be 'prone' to more damage depending on its rating and depending on the output of the system, but it won't necessarily be damaged, and its certainly unrelated to its feed line. Calling it a 6 ohm speaker is not the same thing as if it were rated as a 2 volt speaker vs a 6 volt speaker, if such things worked that way. It might sound rubbish though ;-)
But if the cable goes straight back to the stereo, then the only reason to change it would be for better quality cable, if the 6ohm speakers are paired with tweeters through a crossover then, as above, its worth considering the design. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
swampfreak
Joined: 21 Apr 2013 Posts: 34 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
|
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 13:26 Post subject: |
|
|
I would leave the wire as it is and replace the speakers with same impedence/ohms,
The poweramp stage of the radio is the important bit, All power amps have an impedence rating that you must not go below, EG 4ohm would mean you can put speakers of 4ohm or above, if you put a 2ohm speaker in you run the risk of damaging the power amp not the speaker,
Best thing to do if the speakers you take out have nothing written on them is put a multimeter across +/_ terminals of speaker and measure ohms, a 4ohm speaker should flicker around 4 ohms.
Replace speakers with same impedance and you won't damage anything.
LATERZ _________________ There's only two kind's of music,
"Good And Bad" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
freddread123
Joined: 01 Nov 2012 Posts: 205 Location: North Wales
|
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 16:21 Post subject: speaker |
|
|
impedance is the ac resistance , and varies a lot with frequency, being lowest at bass, and highest at high's. the figure given is usualy lets say, 4 ohms at 1000 cycles a second"( 1 KH,) and matches pretty closely the dc resistance you would do with a meter" as for cable " the thicker the better \" especialy for the high frequencies, " thin cable used in the Deli , has around 2 ohms per 3 meters,, (not the best ) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
swampfreak
Joined: 21 Apr 2013 Posts: 34 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
|
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 19:38 Post subject: |
|
|
don't worry to much about the cable, it really won't make much difference to the ear.
Do a little test, take a speaker out and add 5m of the worst cable you can fine, and tell me you can hear a massive difference. NO WAY.
Wire size AWG Resistance per foot (ohms/ft)
18 0.0064
16 0.0040
14 0.0025
12 0.0016
10 0.0010
8 0.00063
As a pro sound engineer for 27 years, Honestly don't waste ya time with cable runs, _________________ There's only two kind's of music,
"Good And Bad" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Yojimbo
Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 1202 Location: Bucks
|
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 20:18 Post subject: |
|
|
swampfreak wrote: |
As a pro sound engineer for 27 years, Honestly don't waste ya time with cable runs, |
Next you'll be telling us all these 'conditioned' cables the audiophiles bang on about are a waste of time and money eh! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
freddread123
Joined: 01 Nov 2012 Posts: 205 Location: North Wales
|
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 22:01 Post subject: cable |
|
|
Then try QED 79 strand " and tell me there is no difference "?? there is " even cooker cable if you could fit it in would be a massive boost " fitting 10,000 watt sound systems in reggae clubs that is what we used , no loss whatever " on 40 18" bass units " the people with the lowest output need the biggest cable" Simples " the bigger the cable the less loss and the better quality " OFC" is best " especialy on the line levels " |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Yojimbo
Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 1202 Location: Bucks
|
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 22:13 Post subject: |
|
|
This is about car installs though, the distance is so small you'd lose more at the connectors. There is no doubt cable matters, but over a few meters, you probably won't notice it. And to be a pedant, you can't say cable matters and yet with certain cable there is no loss at all, there is always loss, thats science. You Can't have your cake and eat it too.
So always buy 2 cakes! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
freddread123
Joined: 01 Nov 2012 Posts: 205 Location: North Wales
|
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 22:27 Post subject: cable |
|
|
Your right "" the connectors would lose more " lol seems one should get the best cable one can afford" i did notice in my un branded - stereo that is 45 x 4 ,,, that inside the connectors are very heavy and gold plated from the mosfets out "" and at 1KH on the scope actualy produced 52.5 watts per channel all channels driven " with very slight clippng at 56 watts " and that is from china " , one pays one's money and takes the chance " |
|
Back to top |
|
|
oukie
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 67 Location: FIFE
|
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 22:39 Post subject: |
|
|
Wow looks like I opened a can of worms,
So I need to find out the Ohms of the original speakers,
Also I plan to use the original MMCS head unit, I don't want no window shaking power bass just a bit net than the farting speakers I have now.
Chris |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Yojimbo
Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 1202 Location: Bucks
|
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 22:43 Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, actually as I think you mentioned on another post, the power feed is actually really important, that was a good post, drop in output is a drop, but thats all, drop in power feed line will end up upsetting everything, once the voltage running the radio drops down, it simply won't work right, so a lot of clipping occurs. I was reminded of this when I got a Sony xplod stereo recently, the main feed line went to an iso connector, but had a spade connector teed off the constant +ve line so you could also tie in a direct connection to the battery. A nice design feature. If you are worried about loss, make sure it happens on the output, invest on the input ;-) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Yojimbo
Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 1202 Location: Bucks
|
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 22:47 Post subject: |
|
|
oukie wrote: |
Wow looks like I opened a can of worms,
|
Not at all, its nice to use the internet to learn and get stuff right, as well as look at
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
swampfreak
Joined: 21 Apr 2013 Posts: 34 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
|
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 23:05 Post subject: Re: cable |
|
|
freddread123 wrote: |
Then try QED 79 strand " and tell me there is no difference "?? there is " even cooker cable if you could fit it in would be a massive boost " fitting 10,000 watt sound systems in reggae clubs that is what we used , no loss whatever " on 40 18" bass units " the people with the lowest output need the biggest cable" Simples " the bigger the cable the less loss and the better quality " OFC" is best " especialy on the line levels " |
My point was, its a car with about 6 foot length of cable not a 10k rig, Did'nt really want a battle of who's got the biggest, Ya could fit cooker cable into ya car for speakers but thats just daft.
LATERZ Crazy people. _________________ There's only two kind's of music,
"Good And Bad" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
swampfreak
Joined: 21 Apr 2013 Posts: 34 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
|
Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:33 Post subject: |
|
|
Yojimbo wrote: |
swampfreak wrote: |
As a pro sound engineer for 27 years, Honestly don't waste ya time with cable runs, |
Next you'll be telling us all these 'conditioned' cables the audiophiles bang on about are a waste of time and money eh! |
audiophiles don't ya just love em, HeHe.
Really I was only trying to save the lad a bit time and money, no big deal,
LATERZ Good people of Mr Bushy Land. _________________ There's only two kind's of music,
"Good And Bad" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|