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What's happening to my brakes?

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Green Grouch
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Joined: 14 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 20:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

A clamp n cut edge guide is handy to wedge on the pedal and up to the steering wheel.

Inexcess have them cheap sometimes, cheaper than on the link and they adjust quicker and more securely than jamming a bit of wood on the pedal.

25" Guide Clamp

Hyperlink code reformatted to sorten page width. Admin
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andyman



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 0:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought (due to experience) that air in one caliper equalised the loss of braking effort across all four wheels.  So no, lack of bleeding on one wheel wouldn't just reduce braking effect on that wheel, or make it pull to one side. Not sure if  it holds true for the twin pipe system as fitted to Swedish cars of a certain age.
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Lewis
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy W wrote:
Pulling to one side can also be air in that side can't it? That would tie in with me removing the hose on that side to change the wishbone.
Andy


If a caliper is not braking a wheel on one side then that wheel will continue to run on, whilst the one on the opposite side is braking, therefore pulling to that side.  Wink
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andyman



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lewis wrote:
Andy W wrote:
Pulling to one side can also be air in that side can't it? That would tie in with me removing the hose on that side to change the wishbone.
Andy


If a caliper is not braking a wheel on one side then that wheel will continue to run on, whilst the one on the opposite side is braking, therefore pulling to that side.  Wink

So true, if a brake doesn't work, it doesn't work! Rolling Eyes  However, pulling to one side is generally caused by a mechanical fault with the brake on the other side, not air in the system. If all the mechanical parts are functioning properly (eg not sticking), and you have air anywhere in the system, all brakes will work equally badly!
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Deker



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 19:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy W wrote:
Pulling to one side  That would tie in with me removing the hose on that side to change the wishbone.
Andy

Any possibility that hose may be ruptured         (by way of removing, then replacing it)
and collapsing internally when pressure is applied - A known fault with hydraulic hoses.

Mr D
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Andy W



Joined: 03 May 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 16:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, catching up, the van failed it's mot on a couple of minor things but passed on the brakes!

Recapping, the brakes play up randomly, sometimes when I first start up in the morning they are fine and 20secs later the pedal travels 2-3" before giving very poor braking and pulling to the side and then comes right within a few seconds and is okay thereafter; other times it does not happen for days. Other times it will be okay all day, then I stop to manoeuvre and the pedal goes to the floor.

So the problem happens whether the brakes are cold or hot.

Can't be brakes binding/calipers not sliding as that would not show up as the pedal going to the floor. I have a brand new spare master cylinder so will put that on and go from there I think, unless you have any other suggestions.

Andy
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Andy W



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 15:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

Help! I can't get the new master cylinder to bleed properly.
The drivers side bleeds through perfectly but the passenger side just won't, even when I take the pipes right off. If I leave the drivers side pipes tight and loosen the passenger side the pedal won't go down very much at all, if I loosen the drivers side pipes as well, the pedal goes to the floor and the drivers side bleeds nicely but the passenger side does nothing.
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andyman



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 17:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like you might have an intermittent, partial blockage in the passenger side pipes. You may have to try blowing them through with a compressor from both directions, into a clear container, so you can see the blockage material when it blows out.
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Andy W



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 18:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

No it's not the pipes that are blocked , I can't bleed the master cylinder; I slacken the pipes at the master cylinder to bleed it and nothing comes out and the pedal does not really move, definitely nowhere near the floor.  The effect is actually as if they have not been slackened at all.
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Deker



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 20:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy W wrote:
I can't bleed the master cylinder; I slacken the pipes at the master cylinder to bleed it and nothing comes out and the pedal does not really move, definitely nowhere near the floor.  The effect is actually as if they have not been slackened at all.

At the M/C, You slacken BOTH pipes at the same time, OR one pipe at a time  Question

Mr D
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Andy W



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 20:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhhhh, that's where I was going wrong.  But which both do I slacken? 😁
Cheers, Andy
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Deker



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 21:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assuming you have four pipes, any two, one Front, one Back, on the same side.
Then do same on the opposite side, this should eliminate air from all four pipes - ONLY at the M/C pipe outlets.

I can talk you thro brake bleeding. Send a P.M. for contact number.

I've never been stuck for Brake Bleeding, even on motorbikes, which some can be really difficult.

Bleeding air and hydraulic systems, comes under the scientific category of "Hydrodynamics"
Basically easy to understand  - BUT, the mathematics for flow rate = very complex.

Main difference being: Fluids are not compressible: Gases are compressible.
This has to be born in mind, when Brake Bleeding.

Mr D
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Andy W



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 22:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mr D, I've just realised, two pistons in the MC, therefore only slackening on pipe at a time won't allow the second piston to move as it can't release the pressure. 😁
Cheers and hopefully sorted tomorrow otherwise I will pm you,
Cheers, Andy
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Andy W



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 20:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel vindicated!

I was concerned at the fact that after doing most things in vehicles over the years, I couldn't bleed some brakes; after continuing to struggle at the weekend i took the brand new master cylinder off and checked it out.  Three out of the four ports were blocked and did not reach the main cylinder!

I put the old master cylinder back and took ten minutes to bleed it and I have brakes again. Now it's time to discuss this with Milners!

Andy
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Green Grouch
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 21:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

So annoying when a new part does not work.

You always look elsewhere for the problems and waste so much time doubting yourself Etc etc. .  Sad

Milners have some great stuff

Milners have some awful stuff  Sad

I still use them for some stuff, but have also sent A lot back, which they are fine with.

Maybe they used to it.  Laughing
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Andy W



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 21:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes very frustrating like you say, I wasted too much time on this doing something which is so easy and accessible to do.

Never mind, always quicker the second time round 😄

Andy
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Lewis
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 13:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy W wrote:
I put the old master cylinder back and took ten minutes to bleed it and I have brakes again. Now it's time to discuss this with Milners!y


Reminds me of when they sent me wishbone ball joints that had perished rubber in a few months and holes in the rubber on the ones they sent me to replace them.

They seem okay for anything that doesn't contain rubber, a balljoint or moving parts, unless it is a bonafide OEM product.  Sad
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andyman



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 15:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done, Andy. You have the persistence needed to succeed with these old beasts, although that is a problem you should not have to deal with. Thanks, Lewis for inspiring me with confidence in the MILNERS BALL JOINTS AND RACK GAITERS I bought 2 months ago, and need to fit before its latest possible MoT time, next week! I must open the boxes and see if the rubbers have perished yet. Rolling Eyes
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Deker



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 21:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

Milners parts.

Maybe I've been lucky, not had any problems with their parts, those with rubber.

Tho, noticed this year that the Drive shaft gaitors I fitted for another member are red colour.

Mr D
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