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Camber angle massively wrong

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RobH



Joined: 20 Apr 2010
Posts: 247
Location: Chester

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 21:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I’d call it upper wishbone but I think it’s sometimes called the upper control arm.

Bad news if that’s ‘just the way it is’, it’s loud and persistent, quite embarrassing, gets some pitying looks from pedestrians.

I wonder if something needs tightening. Otherwise I guess it must be cr*p quality bushes. I’ll ask milners if it’s a known issue but if it’s known about it should have been resolved, surely?!

It’s been making noises from the back end as well, sort of ‘bobbling’, knocking lightly, over uneven surfaces. Are there rear drop links?? I’d suspect these if so. If I could resolve a couple of these dodgy noises it might be easier to diagnose the rest!
Cheers
RobH
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Green Grouch
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 21:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have a look back to my earlier post about the stud in the upper control arm rubbing, being too long.

However, when you've dealt with that, it will still leave you with squeaky bushes, but not half as bad as the sound of metal on metal. 😔

As many, I struggle for time, so bought the milner upper control arm, as a fill in, while I refurbed the original.

That is another job and a half!

Getting the old bushes out is testing, but fitting the new is a great laugh without a massive press with a very deep throat as the febest bushes I bought were 0.017" bigger in diameter than the holes they were going in!

I've sorted that by other means, but will report back if it works.

I've got them in now, but still struggling for time to fit the control arm.
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RobH



Joined: 20 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 22:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

It’s definitely a plastic/rubber squeak rather than a metal on metal sound. The guy who replaced it for me was happy that new and old appeared identical. Unfortunately it’s not possible for me to compare Sad

I really don’t want to get my hands dirty with suspension components, I don’t have the energy and have a bit of a phobia of jacked up vehicles.

Thanks again…
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RobH



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 13:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve just had a proper look at it. Obviously I can only see the end of the front mounting bolt but it does stick out a long way. I have to assume the rear bolt beneath the saddle is the same and may well be part of my noise problems. Presumably I’ll need the torsion bar off again to get to the bolt thread. Can it be cut in situ or does it have to come off? Does the torsion bar need unwinding before disconnecting - I.e is it under load??

As usual, the only way I’m going to get this sorted is by doing it myself 😞

Thanks, Rob
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Green Grouch
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 14:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, definitely unwind the tension out of the bar first.

I do with wheels off the ground to relieve a bit of tension.

You may be able to cut the stud in situ. I think I did with a small cutting disc.
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Lewis
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 14:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jack up the offending side wheel, fit an axle stand in, and lower the jack.

That's less tension put on the torsion bar.

Note where the Torsion bar is set at, then unwind it. Do not allow it to come out of the splines.

Undo the two saddle nuts, where the torsion bar connects to the upper wishbone, again do not allow it to come off the splines.

Use a saw / angle grinder to take the excess bolt thread back to being level with the nut.

Put some copper grease or other rust resistant coating on the cut end of the bolt and then refit the saddle and retension the bar.

Jack up, remove axle stand, lower and go for a cuppa, then do a test run.  Smile
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RobH



Joined: 20 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 21:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great information from both, thanks again. I have to decide whether I want to skin my knuckles and put my back out or try to find a mechanic who knows what he’s doing and doesn’t charge the earth. The guy who’s been working on it so far has pulled his shoulder and is on holiday next week 🙄

I’ve got all the tools I need and I’m okay with the job apart from the unwinding/winding of the torsion bar, I hate hate hate going underneath vehicles and spannering ‘upwards’. I believe it’s a bit awkward adjusting the torsion bars.

Cheers
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Lewis
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

I took an old tip from Bruce (Mystery Machine).

I cut and welded two extended depth 17mm sockets together, then used my battery operated socket driver to make it easier and quicker.  Wink
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RobH



Joined: 20 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good tip, thanks. I’m still not going underneath tho ;)

It gets worse. There’s several isolated noises, may or may not be related:
1. The creak, we’ll assume this is the torsion bar saddle issue until proven otherwise.
2. Best I can describe it is a sound like a gently shaken box containing a couple of big potatoes every time the front left goes over even the smallest of bumps. Especially when turning right, not a noticeable problem when turning left.
3. A loud rattling hum accompanied with steering wheel vibration when turning right, especially at low speed and worse in reverse with wheel turned right.

My usually trusted mechanic is currently away but I’ve lost faith in him due to this c*ck up and leaving me with a disabled (potentially dangerous) vehicle for the last three weeks. Any suggestions for a suspension/steering expert in Cheshire/Flintshire?
Thanks,
Rob
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andyman



Joined: 08 Dec 2012
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Location: Penrith

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 14:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suggest you google DSP Mechanics, Brierly Hill, West Midlands. Darryl and Nigel are well respected for their quality and conscientious work and are specialists in 4x4s, especially Mitsubishi; Darryl has both a L400 and a Pajero. I'm no expert, but several connected problems could be at work here; freewheel hub/wheel bearing/ sticky caliper.  Any half decent 4x4 mechanic should be able to eliminate some possibilities, but if you think you could get to Brum, DSP would be my choice., both from the point of view of isolating the exact problem(s), and getting the right parts quickly (if needed). Are you driving in 2H, and have you tried to see what the effect of engaging and disengaging 4WD, is, not forgetting to go forwards or backwards after taking out of 4WD to release the tension in the drive system, so it can properly disengage? Do all your 4WD lights work correctly? (they apparently often don't, so could be misleading.)
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Lewis
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 15:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobH wrote:

3. A loud rattling hum accompanied with steering wheel vibration when turning right, especially at low speed and worse in reverse with wheel turned right.


If the original Hydraulic oil in the rack has not been changed then I would suggest that, as the fluid does absorb moisture over time, so could have a build up of it in there, potentially with some rusting.

The fluid used is DexronII, as used by many, including myself, as ATF.

HTH
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RobH



Joined: 20 Apr 2010
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Location: Chester

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 16:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Brum would be a bit too far but I’ll bear it in mind. To be honest I never take it out of 4WD, there were some unpleasant side effects last time I tried. I believe 4WD only kicks in when there’s some rear wheel spin anyway (?) so if I was going to be stuck in 4 or 2WD, 4WD would be my choice.
No, my super select dash lights stopped indicating correctly about three years ago, apparently I only have front wheel drive now lol.
Interesting suggestion about the freewheeling hubs, noises are worst of all when suddenly taking my foot of the gas in certain circumstances.

I’ll look into changing the power steering fluid. It looks over filled to me, I’ve certainly never changed it.

Milners have said they’re not aware of any issue or complaints. I’ve mentioned to them that I’m not the only one who’s apparently affected by the projecting bolt thread problem.
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RobH



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 16:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

Incidentally, the power steering pump has made a nasty whine when holding full right lock for as long as I can remember. Just another job on the list Sad
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Green Grouch
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 19:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobH wrote:
I think Brum would be a bit too far but I’ll bear it in mind. To be honest I never take it out of 4WD, there were some unpleasant side effects last time I tried. I believe 4WD only kicks in when there’s some rear wheel spin anyway (?) so if I was going to be stuck in 4 or 2WD, 4WD would be my choice.
No, my super select dash lights stopped indicating correctly about three years ago, apparently I only have front wheel drive now lol.
Interesting suggestion about the freewheeling hubs, noises are worst of all when suddenly taking my foot of the gas in certain circumstances.

I’ll look into changing the power steering fluid. It looks over filled to me, I’ve certainly never changed it.

Milners have said they’re not aware of any issue or complaints. I’ve mentioned to them that I’m not the only one who’s apparently affected by the projecting bolt thread problem.



I’d first confirm you have the problem.

I had a similar answer from them some years ago on another issue.

I still got a no hassle refund though. They are good for that.

If your worried about going under, as well, as axle stands, take a couple of wheels off and bung them under.

It may not be in the pamphlet, but helps you relax a bit more.
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RobH



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting development; milners support have asked if the nuts have been tightened from their supplied pre set condition. This would explain why the stud is protruding and will cause creaking of the bushes.
I have no idea how to fit a wishbone, I’m beginning to wonder if my mechanic also has no idea. Tightening just because it can be tightened is not good practice.
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Green Grouch
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bar with the studs on that holds the bushes is one piece, so Could only theoretically be pulled out if massively overtightened, but I'm sure you would notice somewhere. It would look really wrong.?

The nuts will only tighten so far, as I'm sure they tighten to a raised diameter on the shaft?
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Green Grouch
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 19:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just measured my original upper control arm which I have refurbished, but not fitted yet. The shaft length is 355mm.
There is no way your going to pull that thread through to make it rub.

I couldn't get an accurate measurement on the milners as its fitted, but looks to be around the same,,, and I have already cut the stud to fit.
I'll try and post the photo later when I'm on a pc.

Interesting point is that with a drop in temperature, and a bit of rain, the Bush squeak has eased off.

Similar to when a sprayed silicone in the old worn out unit last year.
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Green Grouch
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 20:36    Post subject: Reply with quote




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Green Grouch
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 20:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you look back to the first page of this post where I have shown the picture of the cut down stud, that still looks to extend more than the original which I have posted above
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RobH



Joined: 20 Apr 2010
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Location: Chester

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 21:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can’t pretend to know the finer (or coarser) details of the upper wishbone, it’s all guess work for me, I’ve never pulled one apart.
A couple of questions though; Mr. Grouch, 😉 , did you tighten the ‘end nuts’ on your milners item? Wouldn’t tightening compress the bushes and reduce any required clearances until no more compression is possible, ie enough to expose more stud than is acceptable??
I’m pretty sure there is more stud showing on mine (the visible front stud at any rate) than there was prior to installation.
At least I’m learning a bit even if I’m not resolving anything
Cheers
Rob
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