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Poor Selma failed on emissions...


 
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jejoenje



Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 785
Location: Alloa, Scotland

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 13:39    Post subject: Poor Selma failed on emissions... Reply with quote

Failed MOT! Sad

First one since I've owned her.  Crying or Very sad

Ironically, of all things, I had not expected a fail on emissions alone - everything else is fine, apparently.

Helpful tester and garage man's expectation is that it is very likely due to "shite diesel quality" (his exact words) and the current plan is to run a bunch of good quality fuel cleaner through it.
Hopefully that will push her gases below the limit again.
If not, more diagnostics needed.   Confused

I'm interested - anyone else ever had emissions issues with L300's, on MOT?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 13:39    Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join!


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andyman



Joined: 08 Dec 2012
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Location: Penrith

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 17:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh no! Clean the breather tubes, ,add injector/system cleaner, give it an Itallian tune up,  (easier to do with your manual box) and top up with premium fuel before taking it back. Was it far out?  My Rover diesel was close to failing this year. I put it down to having to follow a truck at 45mph all the way down the Wigton road to Penrith immediately before dropping it off at the MoT station. They are supposed to take the average of the last 3 readings of 6 max. at 3,000 rpm. Clean engine oil and filters also helps.
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jejoenje



Joined: 20 Aug 2016
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 18:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Andy

Breather tubes plural? The only one I know of is the one that runs from the crankcase, number 01115 in this diagram. Are there others and if so where are they?

Yes, I should probably have done the fuel treatment before taking it to the MOT (I think I actually did last year), and probably have considered timing a full service with this as well.

I'm going to see if I can source filters and decent oil quickly, on Monday - I suspect I may not be quick enough for a Tuesday morning re-test, but we shall see.
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jejoenje



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 18:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh meant to say, no, I don't know specifically how far over she was - forgot to ask. I will double check when I speak to them next week.
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andyman



Joined: 08 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 19:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that's the only breather tube I know of (never cleaned it yet, but probably will before the next MoT). I just thought there might be others! Might also be worth removing the cam cover and cleaning any gunk out of the inside. Good luck.
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PinkPig
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

How clean is the air filter?
That will run it rich if it's clogged. You can always just remove bit if you can't find a replacement in time, see if it makes a difference.
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Deker



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 20:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

jejoenje

You have my sympathies with this. It is also my main worry with M.O.T. Test.

I reckon Gov. B*st-a.r.d.s. will do their worst to get our Unique vehicles "Off the road"
Most annoying = Our vehicles are so few, that it would not "Make an ounce" of difference to pollution.

Just M.O.

Deker
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jejoenje



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 23:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the support gents! Smile

I've manged to source a full service kit including air filter & new oil, picking that lot up tomorrow, and then do the whole service tomorrow night in what looks like a downpour! Yay me! Smile

I'll see if I can get the breather tube off and clean it out too, but I'll probably keep the cam cover on - I've never touched that and knowing me I'll create more problems by trying to get that off, in the time I've got...  Laughing

Deker, I know what you mean re. government efforts, although I don't really take it personally... (at least, not in this specific case. In many other ways, as a Dutchman who has made his home here - I very, very much do. But that's a different story.  Shocked )
I am in two minds about this, I must admit. On the one hand, I want to keep driving Selma forever, and see all of us caring for the classics we care for (and get to use them).
And I am also concerned about what all this means for classic diesel cars, like ours, in particular - surely there should be some form of allowances? Fair enough to apply this stuff to recently built cars, but early nineties?? Really??
On the other hand, I can't disagree with the overall intent of legislation changes - Tragedies of the Commons, are, sadly, a real thing - and they operate over timescales that vastly outlast our lifetimes.

A (slightly daft and probably unrealistic) dream would be to convert an L300 (Selma, or perhaps a shiny new one in REALLY good nick) into fully electric. It must be possible!
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andyman



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 23:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Nissan Leaf weighs 2 tonnes. I reckon you would need an HGV licence to drive an electric Delica with a useful range!
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've already made enquiries  - depends on how much range you want but you're looking at £20k-£30k+ for electric conversion.

I agree about the conflict. It really makes no sense at all to drive around a 2 ton diesel pollution machine, often with no more than the driver in it and often with no good reason (ie could have bought a much more economical/cleaner people carrier if you have 6 kids, or a small hatchback if you don't) and, unless you live on a farm or make a living driving on fields for site visits, no reason for a daily 4x4 beyond the owner want, ego and pleasure.

However it isn't just another dull grey box, and more comfortable to sleep in that a tent for the few days a year I go camping. (I also cycle to work and do own a >100g carbon hatchback for daily).

back on thread - well done for sorting all the brakes out and getting that passed on the MOT.
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skodarapid



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excuse my ignorance but what emissions test is performed during a MOT on a 1992 diesel?  I thought it was a smoke test only.  Limit 3.0m-1 for a turbocharged engine.
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jejoenje



Joined: 20 Aug 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

skodarapid wrote:
Excuse my ignorance but what emissions test is performed during a MOT on a 1992 diesel?  I thought it was a smoke test only.  Limit 3.0m-1 for a turbocharged engine.


Fair question, I don't actually know. It may well be that the tester/garage man was using the term "emissions" loosely, as in what he meant was that it failed the smoke test.
I actually intend to do a bit of research on this this evening, but a quick skim of the DVSA "In Service Exhaust Emission Standards  for Road Vehicles" booklet suggests that you are right, it's a metered smoke test.
Being a geek, I would quite like to know what is actually being "metered".
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 15:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should the test result should show engine temperature or oil temperature and rpm?
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jejoenje



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 16:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

Success! Passed on re-test this morning!  Very Happy

I filled up with premium fuel, added fuel treatment, and did a full service last night (quickest one ever as it really was raining cats and dogs!).

Interestingly, according to the tester it was "well over" previously, whereas this time it was a straight pass in a single go.
According to the the testing handbook, if the first smoke test reading is at or below 1.5 m-1, it's a straight pass, with 3 further tests required if not.
This time the reading was at about 1.5 m-1. With the limit being 3 m-1, this implies that the service, fuel treatment and premium
fuel combined has more than halved whatever is being metered.  Shocked
I sure know what I will be doing before every future MOT!

PinkPig wrote:
Should the test result should show engine temperature or oil temperature and rpm?

I'm not sure, but the booklet linked to above says the following:
"The smoke meter will indicate to the Tester to accelerate the engine. The accelerator pedal will be depressed  quickly and continuously but not violently,  
to reach the full fuel position in less than 1 second. After the release prompt is given, the Tester will immediately release the  throttle."

To me, this implies that the meter requires a certain about of gas to be passed into/through it, which I suppose implies at least a certain RPM.
Again, just inferring, but what this procedure does not do is control for engine or oil temp... although it is of course possible that exhaust gas temperature is actually measured and factored into any results.
Surely it must take this into account, because otherwise I wouldn't be surprised that how warm the engine is will really affect any readings.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 20:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations!!!   Very Happy  Very Happy

Yes I do wonder if a slightly cold engine or different pumping of the throttle can make little puffs of smoke that technically fail, but if run for a few seconds more clear. It is really old diesel technology - engine and pump design from early 70s.
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andyman



Joined: 08 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 21:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great news, and a reward for your determination!
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Deker



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 20:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

PinkPig wrote:
Should the test result should show engine temperature or oil temperature and rpm?
Yes, the engine should be brought up to running temperature.

Mr D
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