Yellow diamond : click here

Mitsubishi Delica Owners Club UK™
Mitsubishi Delica L300, L400 and D:5 Owners Club
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   Watched TopicsWatched Topics   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your personal messagesLog in to check your personal messages   Log inLog in 
CalendarCalendar  dynamic online chat serviceChatrooms   Delica Club ShopClub Shop  MDOCUK Classified Ads serviceClassified Ads
MDOCUK home pageMDOCUK Home  Yellow Diamond ClubsYellow Diamond Clubs  Delica Club (CA)Delica Club (CA)  Delica Club (AUS)Delica Club (AUS)

Went thru deep water now leaking auto trans fluid


 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Mitsubishi Delica Owners Club UK™ Forum Index -> Delica L400 Technical Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Salted
Lifetime member
Lifetime member


Joined: 11 Dec 2019
Posts: 19
Location: Stonehenge

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 13:50    Post subject: Went thru deep water now leaking auto trans fluid Reply with quote

v6 2001 3l auto Space Gear 31k miles

I went through a very deep puddle foolishly. It was about a 50 yard long section of flooded ruts and at one point the water was high enough to get into one of my headlights. Doh. We got stuck in the middle and I had to do some reverse, then forward, reverse, to eventually get us out. Doing this created all sorts of bow waves and at one time I could feel the wheels weren't touching ground and we were floating.

My amazing Delica managed to pull us out and great, no water at all had come into the carpeted cab.

The next morning I was gutted to see a huge oil stain under my van. At first I was not sure it was AT fluid as it was very dark brown/black, not red.

The engine oil was at the same perfect level it was 2000 miles ago, but when I looked at the auto trans oil I was astounded to see the oil level is at least 12 inches higher than the 'hot' level. I booked into my local garage 5 miles away this morning but the van did not move when I put it in either D or R.

Thus my very limited mechanical knowledge is convinced the oil leak is from the auto drivetrain.

So, writing this out makes me think obviously somehow water got into the auto trans box. I assume it has a breather?

I've ordered a pump and will try pumping out fluid from the dipstick and replenishing with new ATF because I'm hoping the reason it won't engage D or R is the oil is all frothy and useless?

Is it possible the water ingress has blown up loads of seals and I am doomed?

Was the 'swim' 100% the cause of this or was it just a weird coincidence?

I've been so depressed since this happened because the 'puddle' was at least 18 inches deeper than previous sub-2ft deep ones I'd previously encountered on that BOAT and when I felt my poor Delica float I felt like such a terrible owner ;(

Oh well, I'm just so hoping I can bring my van back to life with some help from some you owners. The knowledge here is just phenomenal but although I tried searching I couldn't find any threads on 'drowning'...

Thanks for reading my woes!
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Google
Sponsor





PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 13:50    Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join!


Back to top
andyman



Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 5601
Location: Penrith

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 20:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might be worth taking the bottom sump plate off the gearbox. There's a gauze filter in there, and it's the lowest point in the box, so any water/mud that has got in should have sunk to the bottom of it, and you can give it a good clean out while you are in there. Hopefully, you haven't blown any seals, - torque converter would be the obvious suspect, but I believe you can change them without having to dismantle the whole box, although you will have to separate it from the engine.
_________________
Andy C L300 Super Exceed - over 100 smiles per gallon!
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Salted
Lifetime member
Lifetime member


Joined: 11 Dec 2019
Posts: 19
Location: Stonehenge

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 21:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, thanks for your reply. I remember your sig "over 100 smiles per gallon!" many years ago when I was lurking here!

I was thinking of trying to get as much oil out the dip-stick with the suction pump then filling up with atf to the 'cold' level. Then hopefully get to dive up and down a few yards. Then I was going to suck out another 3l or so and repeat. Thinking I'll use a total of 12li to 'wash' it out.

Before I could get to take of the sump cover I would need to get some car ramps or something because I#m fat enough to sort of get wedged under there and can't really do anything.

Although the water was very muddy I'm not thinking much mud could have gone inside so that's why I'm hoping flushing it out a few times will help. I suppose if my home made remedy works to get it driveable I could take my van to a proper garage and get the sump removed. Drain everything out and refill with yet more atf.I'm worried about breaking factory seals though as it has only done about 31,000 miles.

I've also thought that if I see fresh red oil dripping out somewhere that would mean a dreaded leak.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Lewis
Site Admin


Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 16291
Location: Huddersfield

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no breather in the Transmission system.

Note that the ATF does a trip round some pipes, through the bottom of the coolant radiator, up through the oil cooler radiator, then back through pipes to the transmission sump.

I suggest you drain the sump via the drain plug underneath it, then disconnect the return pipe from the oil cooler rad which will allow that to drain out.

If all this can be done with the front end raised then any fluids in the connecting pipes will drain back to the sump and exit via the drain hole.

Once you are happy it is all out then the only place there will be some remaining is in the Gear chambers.

Reconnect everything and fill with 5 Litres of ATF then run the ignition and cycle through all the gears, including reverse. take it for a short run round the block if you wish.

Repeat the drain procedure and refill to the hot mark. Take it for another run round the block, cycling through the gears. This will get ATF round the whole system and refill the ATF oil cooler.

Check the dipstick and top up to midway between cold and hot.



Note that there is a breather in the rear diff, which water may have got into whilst you were stopped going from forward to reverse and back again, so I suggest you drain and refill that whilst your at it.


HTH
_________________


Copyright is retained for all my photos. Please don't copy them without asking permission
Do not blindly go where the path may lead you. Go where there is no path and leave a trail that others may follow!
ルイス
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message Visit poster's website
Salted
Lifetime member
Lifetime member


Joined: 11 Dec 2019
Posts: 19
Location: Stonehenge

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 19:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Lewis, thank you for helping!

Unfortunately it has been totally pissing down today and I've not had the opportunity to look at things yet. I have very limited mechanical knowledge as well as limited mobility so I'm a bit useless at the moment.

Assuming somehow extra 'liquid' has got into the ATF is it possible engine oil could get into the auto box? Could some seal between engine and trans have gone? Gosh hope not! Engine oil level seems okay. I captured some drips and the ATF does not appear water cominated as it is not cloudy.

Do you think it could just be a bizarre coincidence and maybe the 'puddle' has nothing to do with it?

'My' puddle was nowhere as deep as this one!

https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/faiung/floods_in_england_right_now_has_this_4x4_got_a/

Good old sods law I have to go off for a few day trip tomorrow and thus won't be able to do anything until next week. It hurts having to rent a car LOL. When I get back I'll buy a trolley jack to lift the thing up so I have some space under there.

Gosh I'm disheartened this has happened but it is great having your expert knowledge Lewis as it is very obvious you know these Delicas inside out. What's your thoughts on what could have happened?
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
andyman



Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 5601
Location: Penrith

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 20:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't go crawling under a vehicle solely supported by a jack - even a brand new trolley jack. Lift it on the jack and support it on axle stands, or drive it up ramps.
_________________
Andy C L300 Super Exceed - over 100 smiles per gallon!
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
andyman



Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 5601
Location: Penrith

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 20:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay, so you can't DRIVE it up ramps! DOH!
_________________
Andy C L300 Super Exceed - over 100 smiles per gallon!
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Lewis
Site Admin


Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 16291
Location: Huddersfield

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 20:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no physical connection between the engine and transmission to allow engine oil to transfer through.

At the back of the engine there is the rear crankshaft seal. The bell housing, which contains the torque converter, is a dry area, which has an open drain hole at the base so any leaking oil can escape out. You said the engine oil level is good, so that indicates the rear crankshaft seal is working as it should.

There is a seal around the splined shaft at the front end of the transmission, which stops ATF leaking out into the bell housing.
If stood in deep water any that has got into the bell housing could potentially get through a faulty seal into the transmission. However I greatly doubt that has happened. Partially as the water would have to be quite deep. Additionally the drain hole in the housing is tiny and it would take quite a while for it to build up enough height and pressure to get throough the seal.
Had there been a fault in the seal between the transmission and the sump then fluid would have drained back out.

There is a seal between the transfer box and the transmission front end and another between that and the rear propshaft. Had the front or rear propshaft seals failed water would still not have passed through into the ATF sump.

To me the most likely place for water to get into the transmission sump would be down the dipstick tube. There is a joint partway down, with an O-ring, which may have failed. The markers on the dipstick are higher than the transmission/ sump level, but lower than the dipstick O-ring joint. You said the ATF level is higher then the HOT marker, which therefore rules out a leak in the sump / transmission joint.

Therefore draining the ATF out on the assumption water has got is is paramount, to prevent corrosion inside the transmission.

HTH
_________________


Copyright is retained for all my photos. Please don't copy them without asking permission
Do not blindly go where the path may lead you. Go where there is no path and leave a trail that others may follow!
ルイス
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message Visit poster's website
Salted
Lifetime member
Lifetime member


Joined: 11 Dec 2019
Posts: 19
Location: Stonehenge

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 21:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Lewis, I really appreciate you taking the time to explain this to me. It is very interesting you mention the dipstick because when I squeezed myself under there it looked like the oil was leaking somewhere higher than I could see, but all the oil was totally coming down the dipstick housing before spreading on the pan and dripping down from there. It definitely seemed the only source of oil was dripping down the dipstick housing.

https://imgur.com/a/EVUGdsD

So if there is a join, things are starting to make sense. Because I've notice the long dipstick most definitely gets a bit stuck when you push it back in, and you have to wiggle it somewhat to get the last foot or so in.

If the dipstick joint has come apart a bit, or the o-ring has got messed, that would explain the jerking maneuvering needed to get the dip stick all the way in.

How accessible is that join? If it wasn't STILL RAINING I'm so tempted to try sticking my phone videoing down to look!

Yeah, Lewis, cool, great news no engine oil could have gone into the transfer box. You've given me some hope!

Hey Andyman, yeah, a trolly jack without proper supports is dodgy and I'll not to be silly. If I bought myself a nice bullbar and winch I could tie up to a tree and winch up the car ramps!
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Lewis
Site Admin


Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 16291
Location: Huddersfield

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 21:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you remove the intercooler you will note the top of the dipstick is bolted to the rocker cover.

Unbolt that and then by following the tube down you will come to a bracket bolted to the side of the bell housing. The joint is below that, as per the photo below.

NB: the front propshaft and gear selector cable has been disconnected in the photo. When those are in place getting to the bracket from below is a tad difficult, unless you have and extra joint between your wrist and elbow.  Laughing




Taking a firm hold of the tube at the top, with the dipstick removed, and pulling it upward, vertically, should allow the top to be separated from the lower section.  At least it has everytime I've had to do it.  Very Happy
_________________


Copyright is retained for all my photos. Please don't copy them without asking permission
Do not blindly go where the path may lead you. Go where there is no path and leave a trail that others may follow!
ルイス
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message Visit poster's website
Salted
Lifetime member
Lifetime member


Joined: 11 Dec 2019
Posts: 19
Location: Stonehenge

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 13:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Lewis

Sorry I didn't reply earlier. My dad recently passed away and I've been away from home sorting all the chaos.

Later today I've got a mobile mechanic to come and have a look at my van. I have printed all your wisdom and I do hope it is the dipstick join that caused all the problems. I decided to get a mobile mechanic to help me because I've got mobility probs and already I nearly got stuck under my van and I don't want to push my luck ;)

It makes sense because the dip stick gets stuck when you insert it, and I hope this is the o-ring causing the slight blockage.

I will update later tonight and let you know how things went.

Once again, thanks Lewis for taking the time to help me. Your knowledge on these cool vans is remarkable.

Hopefully one day we can meet up if ever you do a trip down to Salisbury Plains.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Lewis
Site Admin


Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 16291
Location: Huddersfield

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 14:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been on Salisbury Plain quite a lot, but usually as a Photographer, covering special events.  Rolling Eyes






_________________


Copyright is retained for all my photos. Please don't copy them without asking permission
Do not blindly go where the path may lead you. Go where there is no path and leave a trail that others may follow!
ルイス
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message Visit poster's website
Salted
Lifetime member
Lifetime member


Joined: 11 Dec 2019
Posts: 19
Location: Stonehenge

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 21:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool photos! I think I see a sneaky Delica hiding in that last picture. I do prefer dark green over my white one.

Whew, well it looks likes we've got it going again!

We removed the top half of the dip stick and o-ring did look slightly flattened on one side. However, as we didn't have a replacement we greased it up and put the dip stick back together.

We drained the ATF twice 2nd time the ATF looked much more red (instead of black) but I'll probably flush it one more time.

Sorry to pick your brains, Lewis, but do you by any chance know what size or part-# o-ring I should get for the dipstick?

Also, maybe a dumb question, should the ATF level be checked while the engine is running? Or after what time the engine is off to let the ATF settle?

Whew, looks like this mobile mechanic is willing to get stuck in and help me even though he's never seen a Delica before. We spent 2 and 1/2 hours and he charged £90 for his labour which I thought was fair. Had I needed to get the van towed to the nearest garage the fee was £170 just to get the van there before any work was done.

Yay, hold thumbs my dream van is willing and able to take me on some more off-road adventures!

Cheers Lewis!
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Lewis
Site Admin


Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 16291
Location: Huddersfield

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 0:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note Dipstick has markers for both cold and hot checking.

I prefer to check with the vehicle on flat ground. Engine switched off, but at normal working temp.


Dipstick 'O' ring is Part No. MR486844 9.8mm


_________________


Copyright is retained for all my photos. Please don't copy them without asking permission
Do not blindly go where the path may lead you. Go where there is no path and leave a trail that others may follow!
ルイス
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message Visit poster's website
Salted
Lifetime member
Lifetime member


Joined: 11 Dec 2019
Posts: 19
Location: Stonehenge

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah brilliant, thank you yet again! I'm relieved to see they are easy to get and I've just ordered a couple.

Cool. I will keep checking the ATF levels until I instal the new oil ring.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Salted
Lifetime member
Lifetime member


Joined: 11 Dec 2019
Posts: 19
Location: Stonehenge

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 22:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

o ring on order. 3 weeks. Cheers for that info.

Took van out tonight for 10 miles off road. Nice reliable sweet I love my Delica. Doing what I physically could never do.

Picked up CB comms from 20 miles away!

All good.

Thanks Lewis, you do so much 'good'.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Mitsubishi Delica Owners Club UK™ Forum Index -> Delica L400 Technical Forum All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


All contents © Hobson's Choice IT Solutions Ltd 1997 on
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group