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Mitsubishi Delica L300, L400 and D:5 Owners Club
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jejoenje
Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 785
Location: Alloa, Scotland
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 Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 19:03 Post subject: Have I killed my master cylinder? :( |
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Drat... have I buggered my master cylinder?
While I was just doing discs and pads on the front end of Selma, I had a momentary loss of concentration (or momentary attack of stupidity).
As I had one side put back together, I wanted to check pad-to-disc contact, and pumped the brake pedal a few times. Nothing very much happened, so pumped a few more times (DOH!).
Only then I remembered that I had not yet put the caliper back on the other side, so on that side the piston had well and truly ejected itself from the caliper!  
I got a clamp on the hose on the other side as quick as I could, but quite a lot of fluid had of course come out.
I will of course need to put everything back together (I have only just stopped swearing at myself and put the piston back in the caliper), and bleed the brakes at the very least,
but I remember reading that significant loss of fluid can destroy the master cylinder. Is that right, and if so, will this be obvious immediately?
I did not have the engine running when I pressed the pedal, not sure if that makes things any less bad.
Also read that I may need to bleed the clutch, as well - where do I do this?
The manual also mentions a bleeding point at the "G sensing proportioning valve" or "blend proportioning valve" - is this where the clutch bleeding point is as well?
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1992 L300 Exceed "Selma" |
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PinkPig
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Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 2720
Location: Southampton, UK
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 19:50 Post subject: |
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Hi,
I don't think you'll have a problem as long as the piston didn't hit a unused bit of the master cylinder and scuff the seals.
Get it all back together and bleed it through and then see how it feels.
The clutch is the same as the brakes to bleed, nipple on the slave cylinder on the side of the gearbox but you may find it easier to use a pressure bleed kit, or even bleed the clutch backwards - ie force the fluid back up from the clutch bleed nipple (used to have to do this on Peugeot 504/505s).
The G sensor thing I thing is the load balancer in the middle of the back axle.
Shame you're so far away - I'd pop.round and help!
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Deker
Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 3833
Location: Borehamwood
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 21:12 Post subject: Re: Have I killed my master cylinder? :( |
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| jejoenje wrote: |
Drat... have I buggered my master cylinder?
A) ejected itself from the caliper!
B) but I remember reading that significant loss of fluid can destroy the master cylinder. Is that right, and if so, will this be obvious immediately?
C) Also read that I may need to bleed the clutch, as well - where do I do this?
C 1) The manual also mentions a bleeding point at the "G sensing proportioning valve" or "blend proportioning valve" -
C 2) is this where the clutch bleeding point is as well? |
A) Before you replace the piston, carefully remove the "rubber" ring from the caliper, and clean the groove it sits in.
B) Just about most times that might happen, if the cylinder was left empty. So you should okay
C) I don't know about the fluid reservoir for L300.
C 1) I've never had to do that on my L400 (which has a similar device)
C 2) Roger has described that.
HTH
Mr D |
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andyman
Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 5602
Location: Penrith
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 22:03 Post subject: |
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Presumably, it uses the same reservoir (end of dash) to feed both M/Cs. If you pumped it dry on the brakes, as long as you didn't press the clutch, you shouldn't have pulled any air into the clutch system. Did you not replace the brake M/C at some point? If it is fairly recent, there won't be a ridge in it, and even then, on a worn cylinder, it doesn't have a sharp edge, or anything to cause damage, except any rust flakes which may have settled at the bottom end.
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jejoenje
Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 785
Location: Alloa, Scotland
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 22:46 Post subject: |
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Thanks v much gents - I really appreciate the input! 
I will try not to panic yet until I've had a chance to bleed it and see.
| PinkPig wrote: |
The G sensor thing I thing is the load balancer in the middle of the back axle.
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Ah... I see. So it's definitely not what I think it was - there something with a bleed nipple and brake lines in/out on the N/S of the gearbox (not the slave cylinder - it's on its own,
just by the fuel pipe running from the filler to the tank. Will take some photos when I get the chance.
| PinkPig wrote: |
Shame you're so far away - I'd pop.round and help! |
Thanks that is much appreciated - may be an opportunity to meet in the future regardless.
| Deker wrote: |
A) Before you replace the piston, carefully remove the "rubber" ring from the caliper, and clean the groove it sits in.
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Thanks, Deker - done (took the caliper off & all!). Not too worried about that bit as I rebuilt both calipers a while ago, so all still looks okay there.
| andyman wrote: |
If you pumped it dry on the brakes, as long as you didn't press the clutch, you shouldn't have pulled any air into the clutch system. Did you not replace the brake M/C at some point?
If it is fairly recent, there won't be a ridge in it, and even then, on a worn cylinder, it doesn't have a sharp edge, or anything to cause damage, except any rust flakes which may have settled at the bottom end.
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Thanks Andy! No, I never replaced the M/C, it's still what was on there when I got it, and its started to leak at that. So now thinking (probably overthinking) I should use this as an opportunity to replace or rebuild!
To be honest, I probably don't quite understand what the main cause for potential damage due to the cylinder being 'dry' of fluid - the ideas of there being damage or flakes I can understand.
If so, I *think* there is still a litttle bit left in the resevoir, so may be I'll be okay.
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1992 L300 Exceed "Selma" |
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jejoenje
Joined: 20 Aug 2016
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Location: Alloa, Scotland
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andyman
Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 5602
Location: Penrith
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 23:35 Post subject: |
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Yes, mine is also on the N/S, next to the tank. There is not a bleed nipple on the N/S rear brake.
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PinkPig
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Location: Southampton, UK
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PinkPig
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jejoenje
Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 785
Location: Alloa, Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:02 Post subject: |
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Aha! And I will have a G please Bob! I had not looked at those diagrams closely - thanks for pointing those out!
I will have to double check later, but I am pretty sure I don't have the "gubbins" on the rear axle that's drawn for the "4WD - load sensing proportioning valve".
It also appears that for that set up, there is just what looks like a bracket with some line joins at the center of the vehicle. Mine has that an extra valve-looking
thing there, so I'm pretty sure I have the "G sensing proportioning" version.
There sure is a bleed nipple on there, but I may stay away from that one for the time being, and just bleed at the brakes themselves, and see how I go.
From the feedback so far, I'll also leave the clutch alone for now, unless there is a noticeable issue.
(As for the two cylinders on/at the gearbox, I'm pretty sure I have both, too - I'll check later for reference)
Still considering dealing with the weepy master cylinder.
andyman, do I remember correctly that you rebuilt your master cylinder? If so, was this easy enough and where did you get the kit from?
I have the part number (MB928395) and there seem to be a couple of very affordable options in aftermarket, whereas for the genuine Mitsi rebuild kit I may
as well just get an entire new cylinder! 
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1992 L300 Exceed "Selma" |
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PinkPig
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Lewis
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Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 16295
Location: Huddersfield
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:35 Post subject: Re: Have I killed my master cylinder? :( |
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| jejoenje wrote: |
.....Drat... have I buggered my master cylinder?
While I was just doing discs and pads on the front end of Selma, I had a momentary loss of concentration (or momentary attack of stupidity).
As I had one side put back together, I wanted to check pad-to-disc contact, and pumped the brake pedal a few times. Nothing very much happened, so pumped a few more times (DOH!).
Only then I remembered that I had not yet put the caliper back on the other side, so on that side the piston had well and truly ejected itself from the caliper!
I got a clamp on the hose on the other side as quick as I could, but quite a lot of fluid had of course come out.
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Not a problem. It's just as if you took pout the pistons to put new ones back in.
As the caliper was the lowest pressure point then the rear proportioning valve owuld not be affected due to hydraulic oil goin gdirect to the open caliper.
Clean up the piston.
Clean up the cylinder.
Replace piston.
replace caliper.
bleed as normal.
HTH
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jejoenje
Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 785
Location: Alloa, Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:43 Post subject: |
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| PinkPig wrote: |
I got a new master cylinder from a company on Germany. I think it was about £80-90 ish.
Left hand drive one fits fine on the right hand drive, just need to spin the inlet pipes around on the top 180° to point the other way. |
Cool thanks dude.
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1992 L300 Exceed "Selma" |
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jejoenje
Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 785
Location: Alloa, Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:44 Post subject: Re: Have I killed my master cylinder? :( |
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| Lewis wrote: |
| jejoenje wrote: |
.....Drat... have I buggered my master cylinder?
While I was just doing discs and pads on the front end of Selma, I had a momentary loss of concentration (or momentary attack of stupidity).
As I had one side put back together, I wanted to check pad-to-disc contact, and pumped the brake pedal a few times. Nothing very much happened, so pumped a few more times (DOH!).
Only then I remembered that I had not yet put the caliper back on the other side, so on that side the piston had well and truly ejected itself from the caliper!
I got a clamp on the hose on the other side as quick as I could, but quite a lot of fluid had of course come out.
|
Not a problem. It's just as if you took pout the pistons to put new ones back in.
As the caliper was the lowest pressure point then the rear proportioning valve owuld not be affected due to hydraulic oil goin gdirect to the open caliper.
Clean up the piston.
Clean up the cylinder.
Replace piston.
replace caliper.
bleed as normal.
HTH |
 Fingers crossed!
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1992 L300 Exceed "Selma" |
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PinkPig
Lifetime member
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 2720
Location: Southampton, UK
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PinkPig
Lifetime member
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 2720
Location: Southampton, UK
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PinkPig
Lifetime member
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 2720
Location: Southampton, UK
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PinkPig
Lifetime member
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
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Location: Southampton, UK
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andyman
Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 5602
Location: Penrith
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 21:00 Post subject: |
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Yes, I bought a seal kit for mine for a few £s, after buying a scrappy one (cheap), only to find it was dirty and scored inside. Can't understand how it didn't leak worse than mine! It was a while back, and I don't have any paperwork now. But my brakes have been perfect ever since. It's a shame I didn't fit the seals BEFORE I wrote off a stationary RAV4 at a junction!
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Andy C L300 Super Exceed - over 100 smiles per gallon! |
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jejoenje
Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 785
Location: Alloa, Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 22:24 Post subject: |
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Thank you PinkPig for the links - I shall have a peruse.
| andyman wrote: |
Yes, I bought a seal kit for mine for a few £s, after buying a scrappy one (cheap), only to find it was dirty and scored inside. Can't understand
how it didn't leak worse than mine! It was a while back, and I don't have any paperwork now. But my brakes have been perfect ever since. It's a shame I didn't fit the
seals BEFORE I wrote off a stationary RAV4 at a junction! |
Yikes I remember that story (shudder!).
So it was the scrappy cylinder that you rebuilt, not one that was in yours before? Was it an OEM seal kit, or aftermarket?
The news tonight is that all the brakes are now bled (I even managed to get the bleeder screw on the O/S rear undone after liberal application of penetrating oil!).
I did end up bleeding at the "G sensing valve" too, as discussed above. Very little air from there, as the last point to be done, but at least this means the bleeding has been done "by the book".
As predicted by you wise folk, it appears the brakes are essentially as they were, perhaps with a tiny bit more "wheezing" from the cylinder/booster area.
Will know soon enough whether this is all acceptable, as she's booked in for her MOT on Friday 
Want to try to go ahead with the test just to get it over with, but may still do the cylinder fairly soon anyway.
Thanks again all for your help.
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