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when replacing the chain guides, do i need to remove the fue


 
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anthony.palmer
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 14:29    Post subject: when replacing the chain guides, do i need to remove the fue Reply with quote

hi people.
my bus has been sat up a year, so i thought i would get it sorted. the issue was, chain slap even after the chain was done and I've checked the tensioner and the feed to it ect. so I've come to the conclusion the guides need check,
i have the 1994 2.8 bus. I've striped everything off the chain case, just wondering if the fuel pump has to come off also, as it looks like the pump is held on with a bracket, I've removed the front screws. so just need to know if the pump comes off with that bracket.

thanks tony
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anthony.palmer



Joined: 25 Sep 2013
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Location: High Wycombe

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 18:43    Post subject: Re: when replacing the chain guides, do I need to remove the Reply with quote

feel a little bit like a *beep*, it was the aircon compressor. anyway I've removed it. so it looks like i can leave the fuel pump in. just got to get the case off now and see what i find.
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anthony.palmer



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 13:41    Post subject: expert advice needed on chain slap Reply with quote

had loads of issues with this, i will start from the start. i got this Delica about 4-5 years ago, within six months, had a chain split link replaced due to it slapping. within the year it started again. (maybe 8-10 months). the person that done it, changed again, presuming a dodgy chain. within six months. same again. so this time I changed. each time a new tensioner replaced. changed again, but this time no difference, chain slap right away.
so I went down the route and checked the oil feed to the tensioner, this was all okay, not blocked ect. re checked this again.

so I got to the conclusion it had to be the guides. so i've now stripped the front end off, and it looks to me the guides are okay, can't see that they are cracked, broken or the seating is worn.
to me it looks like the chain casing has been off before, as it is sealed with a sealant, not a gasket. also the bottom chain cog looks like the bolt was on the other sides hole as its left a mark. I would presume it dosn't need two bolts in the cog?

any ideas, advice on this one would be great. as i'm losing the will, I really want this bus back on the road.

tony

i've taken some pics, can take more if need too. but I need to work out how to get them on here.
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skodarapid



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 14:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been doing the timing chain amongst other things on mine for the last few weeks, it's the first time I've been deep into this engine so no expert.  There was no gasket on my timing cover, just sealant, and I think this is normal, I don't see any gasket on the Mitsubishi epc parts website.  Have you looked at these parts drawings, and do you have a manual?  The Canadian Delica club website has links to .pdf manuals, check the 4M40 one.
Can't really help on the chain slap but now that you've done all the hard work getting in there, is it not worth buying an all new kit and installing, I see SKF chains with guides and tensioner on ebay for under £100.
And yes, mine only had one bolt securing the large timing gear washer to the gear, also shown on Mitsubishi EPC.
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anthony.palmer



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Location: High Wycombe

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 14:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the info, i have a Delica pdf manual, and it does only show the one bolt, I'm just scratching my head, sadly coming up with no answers. i have noticed that the right hand guide that the tension pushes against is curved away from the bottom of the chain so about 10mm dosnt touch the chain, i presume this is normal, just to stop the chain catching the guide. i am still thinking to change the guides and tensioner. but i don't think this will sort out my issues ?
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Lewis
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 22:18    Post subject: Re: expert advice needed on chain slap Reply with quote

anthony.palmer wrote:
to me it looks like the chain casing has been off before, as it is sealed with a sealant, not a gasket.


Sealant is normal, as per factory, rather than a hard gasket.

anthony.palmer wrote:
I've taken some pics, can take more if need too. but I need to work out how to get them on here.


See this post for how to do that:- http://www.MDOCUK.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12958

HTH
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andyman



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 22:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lewis will hopefully be along soon to give you his expert advice.  I have no experience of the 4M40, but I believe the usual way of checking if your chain has too much slack is by hooking it through the oil filler hole and seeing if you can lift it on the cam sprocket - you shouldn't be able to. Is there a way of knowing if the sprockets are worn, so even a new chain will be slack? What mileage has it done, although I've never heard of a worn sprocket problem, even on a high miler.
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Lewis
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 22:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

skodarapid wrote:
....The Canadian Delica club website has links to .pdf manuals, check the 4M40 one.


No Need to go to the Canadian Deli Club website, as there is a full list of the Mitsu workshop manual, available for free download on here, in the Tech Faq section.  Rolling Eyes

See Mitsubishi workshop Service Manual and other goodies
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anthony.palmer



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 23:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

yep, i see on the manuals that its sealant. i spoke with someone that worked on jap imports , like the evos. and they used threebond sealant. still very confused why the chain is still slapinging. it looks like its been apart before my time, as it has tipex marks on some of the cogs, allthough, after turning the chain for about 30min, the timing marks don't all match up ?? which has now put another spanner into it. its covered about 120000 miles, so not too many. the chain done seam to have any slack in it. Can't lift off the cam socket. the only thing that i would question is the guide that the tensioner goes onto, as it has a gap at the bottom. on further inspection its about 20mm, i though 10m at first. I've ordered the chain and guide set. as its apart. but still i would like to get to the bottom of this, as the sprockets look all good, o, the slap is when the Deli was under about 3000/3500 rpm.
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skodarapid



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 16:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the timing stamps never lining up, mine too, also had white paint marks.  Turned it over and over, never lined up the oil pump and balance shaft gears as shown in the manual.  Maybe just needed to keep going but I took them out and realigned all of them.  It's quite tricky putting the oil pump back on while keeping the o-rings in place.  I would link a photo of the gap between the chain and guide on mine but haven't yet posted enough times to be allowed.
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anthony.palmer



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 17:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

don't think i could post pics either then, as I've not listed much. I'm in two minds to remove and replace all the cogs, as it starts on the button every time. I'm wondering if its the streched chain that put the timing marks out ? the closest i got is lining up the bottom chain cog, lined up the balance shaft. the top chain cog is out by about one tooth. and the oil punp and crank are also just out by a tooth or two. realy strange.
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Green Grouch
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 18:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe they only line up every 87 or something turns!  Shocked

As long as the important ones are right, mine was fine like this also. Expert will be along soon.
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anthony.palmer



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 19:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

i come to the same conclusion. the main ones line up. maybe i will just carry on turning till the do, allthough this is getting away from my main problem. of the chain slap.
does anyone know, on a new chain, how far does the tension come out. also on a stretched chain, removing the tensioner, how much lift is bad on the cam sprocket. when you lift the chain.
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Green Grouch
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 22:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just found an old post on this where I asked the same question myself.

Thanks again Rick.

Respect.

RIP ......

http://www.MDOCUK.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=44776
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skodarapid



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've already been playing with a new chain on it, and without the tensioner attached, just the guides, it's already pretty tight, if anything you struggle to get the camshaft sprocket up and onto the camshaft by hand.  I need to put the sprocket bolt in and start doing it up to get the sprocket on.  Not sure on the slackness you can expect there with an old chain but that's what a new one is like.

Sorry to slightly hijack the thread here but in your similar thread Green Grouch, regarding that rectangular-ish o-ring between timing cover and the block around the water pump channel, did you replace that in the end or just use plenty of sealant?  I'm never going to find an adequate o-ring in my garage of bits this weekend to do the job.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just used sealant. I believe there is a part number, but on Rick's advice I used sealant and all was well.

Wynns gasket maker in my case.
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