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Mitsubishi Delica Owners Club UK™ Mitsubishi Delica L300, L400 and D:5 Owners Club
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andyman
Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 5602 Location: Penrith
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Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:53 Post subject: |
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Why have I not seen this thread? I get alerts by e-mail. Can't help with the clutch as sadly, the manual L400 with perfect mechanicals and rotten body that was in my local scrapper last year has now disappeared, but I hope you've trawled through what is being broken on MDOCUK facebook and Delica Mart. My BMW diesel engined Rover this year developed a vicious judder when releasing the clutch from rest. I drove it a further 1,500 miles (mostly motorway) before I got to change it. When I finally stripped it, the rivet heads on the friction plate had worn away on one side, and the friction material was floating free, and the material on the other side was not far behind, but was still retained concentric. Additionally, the thrust bearing was on its last legs and fell apart as I removed it, but amazingly, had been running smoothly (not shrieking). This plate was the original, unsprung unit, - the shock being absorbed by the springs in the DMF. The spring compression/rotation of the DMF still being within tolerance (these BMW units are much longer lived than many), and the face being only lightly scored, I re-used it, and the new friction plate was spring-damped too. Your clutch was probably on it's way out, but if you have to do some steep, slow, manoeuvering in future, it might be worth engaging 4WD low, even if it means locking the transfer diff on tarmac. The short distances involved will not cause wind-up issues. The Rover was a pain to do, but needs must, - I had 2 quotes of £600 + from garages I trust, so reluctantly did it myself, with help from a friend, over 3 weekends. Hope you get it sorted soon, Annek. _________________ Andy C L300 Super Exceed - over 100 smiles per gallon! |
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Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:53 Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join! |
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annek
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 613 Location: Brighton, East Sussex
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Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 17:42 Post subject: |
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Ah, thanks Andyman!
I did have it in 4WD, always do on anything other than flat really.
The clutch was down on its last, and i have a new clutxh ready to go in too.
Can you explain 4WD low please?
I only just discovered flywheels only exist for manuals!
Feel stupid! |
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Deker
Joined: 08 Mar 2008 Posts: 3833 Location: Borehamwood
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Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 19:38 Post subject: |
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annek wrote: |
I did have it in 4WD, always do on anything other than flat really.
The clutch was down on its last, and i have a new clutxh ready to go in too.
1) Can you explain 4WD low please?
2) I only just discovered flywheels only exist for manuals!
3) Feel stupid! |
1) Not something that you would normally use. Its use is for heavy slow going off road. And Towing, mostly heavy stuff.
I believe that is is more probable to break the 4WD shift lever when using that mode
I once test drove an L400 that was stuck in 4WD Low - The owner could not disengage it, nor could I
2) With Automatic gearbox, the Torque Converter acts as a Flywheel, due to the fact it is quite heavy. Plus the weight of oil in it.
With Auto, the "Flywheel" is actually a flexible plate (Flexiplate) with the Starter Ring Gear as part of it,
(on some flexi plates, the starter ring gear can be replaced ((I have done this), most, if not all, modern flexi plates, the gear is not available))
it is very light weight, as compared to a cast iron Flywheel - as used with a Clutch.
3) Please, do not. The difference twixt Manual and Automatic flywheels is something that most folks have no knowledge of.
Mr D |
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annek
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 613 Location: Brighton, East Sussex
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Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 22:46 Post subject: |
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Thanks Deker
I was so surprised that no-one actually mentioned that there is only the torque convetter for an auto, and that flywheels are only for manuals! Spoken to so many since starting this thread!
Sorry, I don't think I was clwar abiut the explaining the 4WD low, which setting on the 4WD stick is it? Mine will go in and out of diff lock, but 'low'? |
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andyman
Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 5602 Location: Penrith
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Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 0:03 Post subject: |
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I have not looked at the way it is labelled on the L400, but I am sure, like all proper 4WD vehicles, that it has 2 ranges of gears, that is 3+Overdrive in normal, high range, and 3+overdrive in low range. On my older, L300, the transfer lever offers 2WD (high range only for normal road work), which gives a speed in overdrive of around 65mph at 3,000 rpm (from memory). In 4WD high range, the transfer lever connects drive to the front wheels as well, with the same gear ratios. Move the transfer lever to 4WD low, and the transfer box engages a reduction gear to the main gearbox output, approximately halving that ratio, so now you will do just 35mph at 3,000 rpm in overdrive. Whether auto or manual,, this greatly reduces (halves) the stress on the clutch or torque converter ( a torque converter is essentially like 2 compartmented bowls, face to face, but not touching, with hydraulic fluid (ATF) providing the frictional drag between the 2). At Idle, the half connected to the engine can spin without dragging the half connected to the gears around with it, but as you build up the revs, more and more power is transmitted to the gearbox half, via the fluid. At a pre-determined speed range, the 2 halves will automatically lock and spin at the same speed, reducing the amount of power/energy/heat being put into the fluid. This heat energy is the equivalent of the heat produced by slipping the clutch on a manual, instead of letting the clutch fully out. This is why auto boxes have an oil cooling system, because effectively, the clutch is slipping for more of the time. Overstressing the auto box can overheat and damage the fluid. When climbing a very wet Hard Knott pass in the Lake District, (gradient 1in4) I put my auto into 4WD low, - 4WD for better grip on slippery, tight bends, and low to save strain on the transmission. _________________ Andy C L300 Super Exceed - over 100 smiles per gallon! |
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Lewis Site Admin
Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 16299 Location: Huddersfield
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Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:36 Post subject: |
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annek wrote: |
..... I don't think I was clwar abiut the explaining the 4WD low, which setting on the 4WD stick is it? Mine will go in and out of diff lock, but 'low'? ..... |
As per the diagram and instructions on this thread:- http://www.MDOCUK.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18735 _________________
Copyright is retained for all my photos. Please don't copy them without asking permission
Do not blindly go where the path may lead you. Go where there is no path and leave a trail that others may follow!
ルイス |
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YOZA
Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 2423 Location: The centre of the universe
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Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:13 Post subject: |
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annek wrote: |
I only just discovered flywheels only exist for manuals!
Feel stupid! |
An automatic does have a flywheel the ring gear is attached to it, you know this as you have seen many automatic flywheels for sale whilst looking for a manual DMF unicorn wheel.
You are over thinking this, which will lead to confusion. _________________ Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.... |
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annek
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 613 Location: Brighton, East Sussex
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Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 17:46 Post subject: |
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Well, have to admit to being a bit lost now, despite very helpful post, on the auto dmf front, I mean. Just because I was told this (that auto doesn't have a flywheel).
Thanks for the 4WD info, Lewis and Andyman.
Whats this about?
Quote: |
providing the vehicle is moving in a straight line when you do it. |
What happens if it doesn't properly dis/ engage when doing and turning? Been trying to work that out for a while and just seen it in the link on 4WD info.
I now know though that it would have made absolute sense to use the 4WD low in the manoeuvre that made that broke my flywheel, and also recently in loading it onto a flatbed trailer |
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andyman
Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 5602 Location: Penrith
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Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 19:43 Post subject: |
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Auto does have a flywheel, just not a Dual Mass Flywheel. The springs between the 2 parts take up the shock imparted by a quickly released clutch. The high torque of modern diesel engines needs to be absorbed smoothly on take-off and gear changes to prevent damage to either the transmission, or even the crankshaft. _________________ Andy C L300 Super Exceed - over 100 smiles per gallon! |
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Lewis Site Admin
Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 16299 Location: Huddersfield
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Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 22:07 Post subject: |
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annek wrote: |
Whats this about?
Quote: |
providing the vehicle is moving in a straight line when you do it. |
What happens if it doesn't properly dis/ engage when doing and turning? |
The vehicle needs to be moving in a straight line to ensure that the transition from 2WD to 4WD, whilst moving, engages correctly and doesn't damage anything. _________________
Copyright is retained for all my photos. Please don't copy them without asking permission
Do not blindly go where the path may lead you. Go where there is no path and leave a trail that others may follow!
ルイス |
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annek
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 613 Location: Brighton, East Sussex
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Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 23:07 Post subject: |
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So if you do turn when one or other hasn't properly engaged, its going to make a noise????
Tick.
Done this too! |
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annek
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 613 Location: Brighton, East Sussex
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Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:56 Post subject: |
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Also, what are the warning signa that a flywheel is starting to fail please?
I have read that theres a jerk/knocking on initial startup? Is this true? |
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YOZA
Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 2423 Location: The centre of the universe
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Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:29 Post subject: |
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https://www.phoenixfriction.com/t-symptoms-of-dual-mass-flywheel-failure.aspx
All or some of the above.
Once you have read everything that has been posted on this thread, you can enter yourself onto mastermind.....
" Der, der, da, deeeeer, der da....anek your specialist subject is - Dual Mass Fly wheels, your time starts now ." _________________ Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.... |
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Deker
Joined: 08 Mar 2008 Posts: 3833 Location: Borehamwood
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Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 20:09 Post subject: |
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andyman wrote: |
I have not looked at the way it is labelled on the L400, but I am sure, like all proper 4WD vehicles, that it has 2 ranges of gears, that is 3+Overdrive in normal, high range, and 3+overdrive in low range.
On my older, L300, the transfer lever offers 2WD (high range only for normal road work),
Move the transfer lever to 4WD low, and the transfer box engages a reduction gear to the main gearbox
When climbing a very wet Hard Knott pass in the Lake District,(gradient 1in4) I put my auto into 4WD low, - 4WD for better grip on slippery, tight bends, and low to save strain on the transmission. |
Andy.
You over complicated the issue, it was da-n hard to read without line spaces.
Hardknott pass = 1 in 3, so the sign sez.
You did not mention the L400 Super Select, therefore a lot of the L300 4WD is not applicable.
Also bear in mind the L400 has more power than the L300, I drive the Hardknott in "High" ratio, use 4WD when wet.
Mr D |
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Lewis Site Admin
Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 16299 Location: Huddersfield
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Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 14:16 Post subject: |
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I take it you have missed the link, I did in a post further up the page, that takes you to a page showing how to use the Superselect gear lever...... _________________
Copyright is retained for all my photos. Please don't copy them without asking permission
Do not blindly go where the path may lead you. Go where there is no path and leave a trail that others may follow!
ルイス |
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annek
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 613 Location: Brighton, East Sussex
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Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 0:37 Post subject: |
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I have read the link Lewis, yes, it prompted my question as to whether trying to turn when 4WD/2WD not properly engaged would cause noise and movement issues, as I've done that, and thought there was something very wrong, but all seems to work fine, just extremely cautious to be sure there's no bends coming up!
Yoza, 'fraid I'm still not at mastermind level! Despite all the great input here. |
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annek
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 613 Location: Brighton, East Sussex
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 15:36 Post subject: |
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Update:
All fixed!
Much circling.
Dmfs.just not used anymore. All replaced with solid mass.
Miners, for instance don't even have delis as a dmf!! I've been talking bollocks frankly to !
I have a replacement clutch kit for a SMF, from Milners, and a SMF. I had nonidea thst MIlners had sent me a clutch kit for a SMF.
I thought this could be very useful info for others, regardless of your current flywheel situation.
It.just means if a dmf breaks in future, it'll necessitate a clutch replacement also.
SMF also not available, BTW. No further imports on the horizon. |
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andyman
Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 5602 Location: Penrith
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 18:41 Post subject: |
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Great news! _________________ Andy C L300 Super Exceed - over 100 smiles per gallon! |
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annek
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 613 Location: Brighton, East Sussex
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 21:11 Post subject: |
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Thanks Andyman!
Really appreciated the help when I was so stuck. Cheers to you too!
Also....
* I've been talking bollox frankly too ! |
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buzr6mille Lifetime member
Joined: 11 Jul 2009 Posts: 6879 Location: Wherever i park up.
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Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 21:51 Post subject: |
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Great news that it's all fixed _________________ 2nd gear low and go go go!
It's A Shame That Stupidity Isn't Painful..
One dent at a time... |
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