Mitsubishi Delica Owners Club UK™

andyman · Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 5602 Location: Penrith

Why have I not seen this thread? I get alerts by e-mail. Can't help with the clutch as sadly, the manual L400 with perfect mechanicals and rotten body that was in my local scrapper last year has now disappeared, but I hope you've trawled through what is being broken on MDOCUK facebook and Delica Mart. My BMW diesel engined Rover this year developed a vicious judder when releasing the clutch from rest. I drove it a further 1,500 miles (mostly motorway) before I got to change it. When I finally stripped it, the rivet heads on the friction plate had worn away on one side, and the friction material was floating free, and the material on the other side was not far behind, but was still retained concentric. Additionally, the thrust bearing was on its last legs and fell apart as I removed it, but amazingly, had been running smoothly (not shrieking). This plate was the original, unsprung unit, - the shock being absorbed by the springs in the DMF. The spring compression/rotation of the DMF still being within tolerance (these BMW units are much longer lived than many), and the face being only lightly scored, I re-used it, and the new friction plate was spring-damped too. Your clutch was probably on it's way out, but if you have to do some steep, slow, manoeuvering in future, it might be worth engaging 4WD low, even if it means locking the transfer diff on tarmac. The short distances involved will not cause wind-up issues. The Rover was a pain to do, but needs must, - I had 2 quotes of £600 + from garages I trust, so reluctantly did it myself, with help from a friend, over 3 weekends. Hope you get it sorted soon, Annek.
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annek · Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 17:42 Post subject:

Ah, thanks Andyman!

I did have it in 4WD, always do on anything other than flat really.

The clutch was down on its last, and i have a new clutxh ready to go in too.

Can you explain 4WD low please?

I only just discovered flywheels only exist for manuals! Shocked

Feel stupid!

Deker · Joined: 08 Mar 2008 Posts: 3833 Location: Borehamwood

annek · Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 22:46 Post subject:

Thanks Deker

I was so surprised that no-one actually mentioned that there is only the torque convetter for an auto, and that flywheels are only for manuals! Spoken to so many since starting this thread!

Sorry, I don't think I was clwar abiut the explaining the 4WD low, which setting on the 4WD stick is it? Mine will go in and out of diff lock, but 'low'?

andyman · Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 5602 Location: Penrith

I have not looked at the way it is labelled on the L400, but I am sure, like all proper 4WD vehicles, that it has 2 ranges of gears, that is 3+Overdrive in normal, high range, and 3+overdrive in low range. On my older, L300, the transfer lever offers 2WD (high range only for normal road work), which gives a speed in overdrive of around 65mph at 3,000 rpm (from memory). In 4WD high range, the transfer lever connects drive to the front wheels as well, with the same gear ratios. Move the transfer lever to 4WD low, and the transfer box engages a reduction gear to the main gearbox output, approximately halving that ratio, so now you will do just 35mph at 3,000 rpm in overdrive. Whether auto or manual,, this greatly reduces (halves) the stress on the clutch or torque converter ( a torque converter is essentially like 2 compartmented bowls, face to face, but not touching, with hydraulic fluid (ATF) providing the frictional drag between the 2). At Idle, the half connected to the engine can spin without dragging the half connected to the gears around with it, but as you build up the revs, more and more power is transmitted to the gearbox half, via the fluid. At a pre-determined speed range, the 2 halves will automatically lock and spin at the same speed, reducing the amount of power/energy/heat being put into the fluid. This heat energy is the equivalent of the heat produced by slipping the clutch on a manual, instead of letting the clutch fully out. This is why auto boxes have an oil cooling system, because effectively, the clutch is slipping for more of the time. Overstressing the auto box can overheat and damage the fluid. When climbing a very wet Hard Knott pass in the Lake District, (gradient 1in4) I put my auto into 4WD low, - 4WD for better grip on slippery, tight bends, and low to save strain on the transmission.
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Lewis · Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:36 Post subject:

YOZA · Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:13 Post subject:

annek · Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 17:46 Post subject:

Well, have to admit to being a bit lost now, despite very helpful post, on the auto dmf front, I mean. Confused

Just because I was told this (that auto doesn't have a flywheel).

Thanks for the 4WD info, Lewis and Andyman.

Whats this about?

andyman · Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 5602 Location: Penrith

Auto does have a flywheel, just not a Dual Mass Flywheel. The springs between the 2 parts take up the shock imparted by a quickly released clutch. The high torque of modern diesel engines needs to be absorbed smoothly on take-off and gear changes to prevent damage to either the transmission, or even the crankshaft.
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Andy C L300 Super Exceed - over 100 smiles per gallon!

Lewis · Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 22:07 Post subject:

annek · Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 23:07 Post subject:

So if you do turn when one or other hasn't properly engaged, its going to make a noise????

Tick.

Done this too!

annek · Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:56 Post subject:

Also, what are the warning signa that a flywheel is starting to fail please?

I have read that theres a jerk/knocking on initial startup? Is this true?

YOZA · Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:29 Post subject:

https://www.phoenixfriction.com/t-symptoms-of-dual-mass-flywheel-failure.aspx

All or some of the above.

Once you have read everything that has been posted on this thread, you can enter yourself onto mastermind.....

" Der, der, da, deeeeer, der da....anek your specialist subject is - Dual Mass Fly wheels, your time starts now ."
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Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity....

Deker · Joined: 08 Mar 2008 Posts: 3833 Location: Borehamwood

Lewis · Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 14:16 Post subject:

I take it you have missed the link, I did in a post further up the page, that takes you to a page showing how to use the Superselect gear lever......
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annek · Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 0:37 Post subject:

I have read the link Lewis, yes, it prompted my question as to whether trying to turn when 4WD/2WD not properly engaged would cause noise and movement issues, as I've done that, and thought there was something very wrong, but all seems to work fine, just extremely cautious to be sure there's no bends coming up!

Yoza, 'fraid I'm still not at mastermind level! Despite all the great input here. Very Happy

annek · Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 15:36 Post subject:

Update:

All fixed!

Much circling.

Dmfs.just not used anymore. All replaced with solid mass.

Miners, for instance don't even have delis as a dmf!! I've been talking bollocks frankly Embarassed

to !

I have a replacement clutch kit for a SMF, from Milners, and a SMF. I had nonidea thst MIlners had sent me a clutch kit for a SMF.

I thought this could be very useful info for others, regardless of your current flywheel situation.

It.just means if a dmf breaks in future, it'll necessitate a clutch replacement also.

SMF also not available, BTW. No further imports on the horizon.

andyman · Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 5602 Location: Penrith

Great news! occasion5

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Andy C L300 Super Exceed - over 100 smiles per gallon!

annek · Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 21:11 Post subject:

Thanks Andyman!

Really appreciated the help when I was so stuck. Cheers to you too!

Also....

* I've been talking bollox frankly Embarassed

too !

buzr6mille · Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 21:51 Post subject:

Great news that it's all fixed Very Happy

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