Mitsubishi Delica Owners Club UK™

[phluke]

Hi
Drove to work this morning, about 4 miles away only to be greeted by concerned looking faces and much pointing to the front nearside of the Deli. Coolant flowing out of the overflow pipe from the plastic header tank. Stopped the engine and the coolant stopped but engine seemed hotter than it normally would. Didn't notice anything unusual on the drive and temp gauge seemed to be doing its normal thing, rising on hills and then going down on the flat/downhill.
Gave the 2 radiator hoses a squeeze after work and whilst the lower radiator hose seemed to have fluid in it the upper one didn't. Replaced the lost coolant to just above max level, opened the bleed on the hose at the top above the battery and started engine waiting to see coolant flowing out (got to add here that i still had the header tank cap off at this point which I'm now thinking might've been a mistake!?). After about 30 secs to a minute the coolant in the expansion tank was foaming out of the top. Immediately stopped engine. Again the lower hose was devoid of fluid.
My mate suggested taking the thermostat out in case that was faulty, on opening discovered this:



Already no thermostat!

Didn't have the time or inclination to embark on trying to get at the water pump tonight, phone died and a little out of my depth without knowing exactly what I'm taking on. So here I am with questions.

I'm assuming that someone prior to me has already removed the thermostat, or could it have fallen apart and disappeared somewhere it shouldn't have?
Could a broken water pump be the cause of the foaming? Or is the foaming more symptomatic of a blown head?
In addition on catching the coolant that came out I noticed it was the red/pink stuff which I've now learnt appears to be the wrong type, how much damage could this have done to radiator and could this be blocked, causing the problem?
In short the van is parked at work and obviously undriveable as it is. I am prepared to embark on replacing the thermostat and waterpump if it stands a reasonable chance of being the solution or should I just get it recovered to a garage to test for a blown head gasket? My immediate thoughts are to flush the rad tomorrow to check if it's blocked and go from there...

Help please

[Google]

[Lewis]

If it had come apart on it's own then the parts would be inside the thermostat housing.

It is most likely that a previous owner took it apart to let water flow continuously around the sytem, due to overheating. However it would only flow if the waterpump was working.

Above and below the pump, on the casting, there are two holes which water will leak out of if the pump is stuffed. If so then there would be a white stain by one or more of them, usually the lower one.

Check that there isn't any buildup of mud and muck between the front aircon radiator, if one is fitted, and the main water rad behind it.

Having the expansion tank cap off allows the engine to get hot sooner.

I would be inclined to flush the whole system out, fit a new pump and refill with the correct coolant, in a 50-50 mix. At the same time check the water temp sensor(s) are okay, so you get a proper warning if there is overheating.

HTH
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[phluke]

Thanks Lewis, Def nothing in the thermostat housing so presume previous owner took it out. Got a new pump on order and will do a flush tomorrow and see what happens. I've seen the water temp sensors for about £55 how would I check if mine is working correctly before I fork out for a new one?

Feels like the Deli objected to me fiddling about trying to diagnose my 4WD issues from my other thread and threw this one up to distract me!
Cheers

[Lewis]

£55   your not looking in the right place.  

Temperature sensor Part No. MD050214 - for top of cylinder head  - approx £7 each:-

https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/oenumber/md050214.html

Also available from most local Autofactors.  


Even the OEM ECU control temp sensor can be bought cheaper than OEM prices:-
Part No. ME202053 - for top Radiator hose elbow - approx £26:- Ebay item  253149406437


HTH  
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Copyright is retained for all my photos. Please don't copy them without asking permission
Do not blindly go where the path may lead you. Go where there is no path and leave a trail that others may follow!
ルイス

[phluke]

That's more like it, maybe I was looking at the wrong thing then, it had been a long day
Cheers

[phluke]

Today I flushed everything, rad, engine, expansion bottle, separately, together, forwards, backwards, everything seemed fine didn't get a lot of muck coming out much to my surprise, once the coolant was out everything was running clear. I suppose that rules out a blockage somewhere.

Bolstered by Delicas Rock you tube video I then got down to taking the water pump out ready for a new one to arrive. Hoping to find a decrepit piece of junk with no fins which obviously didn't work. Not quite but it does look a bit past its sell by date. It turns without force but doesn't exactly spin freely, also has a little bit of wobble on it. Not really sure if it's enough to say it wasn't working but going to fit a new one anyway. Took a couple of images of the old one and the pump housing.





Strange marking on the housing which got me to thinking that as the van had been stood for over a year maybe the water pump blades had possibly corroded itself to the housing at some point?

Thinking that with every step further along I'm getting closer to having the head gasket conversation!

[phluke]

Just a quick question.
Replacing the water pump tomorrow hopefully and wondered what, if any sealant I should use around the gasket, have seen talk of grey silicone,  blue seal, Wynn’s gasket sealant, any recommendations?
Cheers

[Lewis]

None.

It has a rubber gasket to seal it.  

You can see it in your photosand a new one will have one in the box.

HTH
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Copyright is retained for all my photos. Please don't copy them without asking permission
Do not blindly go where the path may lead you. Go where there is no path and leave a trail that others may follow!
ルイス

[phluke]

Did wonder why I'd need it with a rubber gasket, just looked liked there was the remnants of some left on the face, which I have carefully removed now.
Thanks

[phluke]

Today fitted new water pump and thermostat almost without hitch. Unfortunately I took my eye off the ball for a moment and think I overtightened one of the bolts on the thermostat housing, doh! Just felt it give slightly, it seems to be holding but may need to get it fixed.

However I am now almost certain that is a head gasket problem. Started it up and can see bubbles in the expansion tank coming from the small bleed hose from the top of the rad.

Took a risk and drove a couple of miles closer to home where I've left it till I can get it another couple of miles to the garage to have it looked at. Temp gauge stopped just below halfway while I was driving and no coolant being ejected from overflow pipe like the other day but still looks ominous.

[mark3]

Bubbles in the expansion tank and it not getting silly hot is almost certainly a head or head gasket issue, sadly 90% of the time it's a cracked head  

it's strange that everyone thinks air in the system is down to a defective thermostat or water pump? these won't introduce gasses into the system which is what causes the escaping bubbles, if these parts fail they cause good old fashioned over heating but not continuous bubbles, if you have bubbles of gasses leaving the system it must be getting in somehow and it won't be from a leak as air will not be able to enter a pressurised environment unless it's at very very high pressure like that found in a combustion chamber....

A simple way to check if your water pump is working okay is if heater blows hot when it should, if it does your water pump is working.

How long have you had the vehicle? the dismantled thermostat would suggest to me the previous owner knew about this problem and did this to the stat to get it running cool enough to sell on  
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[phluke]

I did suspect I'd blown the gasket from the start to to be honest but I think because it had been behaving itself generally I wasn't entirely sure what had initially caused the overheating, have no history with the vehicle and thought maybe the pump might've been to blame, bit like 'bolting the stable door' and all that I know but optimistically thinking it might make something better or at least cross it off the list.

Had it since, October and admittedly I knew I was taking a risk on it, the guys I bought it off had got it from a funeral home along with a hearse where they said it had stood unused for a year. They said they were going to break it but it seemed too good. I'd say entirely likely that either they knew, or possibly threw some additive goo in to give it a chance, or maybe they just couldn't be bothered to break it and sold it for some quick cash. I didn't pay a fortune for it by any means, just got to work out whether, as a vehicle with some other issues, it's worth getting fixed.

[andyman]

Phluke. I think you are going to have to get the head pressure tested and examined for cracks. If it just needs a new gasket, is that within your scope? Fitting a new head is not much more work, but obviously  a bigger cost. Good luck.
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Andy C L300 Super Exceed - over 100 smiles per gallon!

[phluke]

Well thrashing it with a branch to teach it a lesson didn't work so I suppose it's worth a go!

Funnily enough the bloke I bought it off was joking about his guys refusing to get in it

While I'm here, I'm pricing up the replacement head route in readiness for bad news next week. I've read posts talking about a seller on eBay that V8 Rick used to use, can't seem to find his name again, anyone got any recommendations??
Cheers

[phluke]

Andyman, yes it's going in next week to see what the damage is, pressure testing on my list for the garage. Am I right in thinking these heads are unskimmable? Something about ceramic inserts somewhere?

[Lewis]

[andyman]

I'll pass on that, strangely, the subject of skimming these heads doesn't come up! Obviously, no amount of skimming will cure a crack, but as far as I know, nothing should prevent the mating face from being skimmed.
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Andy C L300 Super Exceed - over 100 smiles per gallon!

[Lewis]

This is also a useful website:- http://www.robertsfabrications.co.uk/cylinder-head-skimming/
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Copyright is retained for all my photos. Please don't copy them without asking permission
Do not blindly go where the path may lead you. Go where there is no path and leave a trail that others may follow!
ルイス

[andyman]

Sorry Lewis, you had not posted your explanation of the ceramic inserts when  I started my last post. I assume they project in some way, so would get caught by the planing machine?
_________________
Andy C L300 Super Exceed - over 100 smiles per gallon!

[andyman]

Just looked at Roberts' very informative site. Strikes me as bad engineering to allow no tolerance for skimming in the design of the head.
_________________
Andy C L300 Super Exceed - over 100 smiles per gallon!