View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
YOZA
Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 2423 Location: The centre of the universe
|
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 15:44 Post subject: Uneven tyre wear |
|
|
Let us imagine that this job had to be done to the best of your ability on your drive with readily available tools.
My drivers front tyre is wearing out on the inside edge 1 . 5 inches away from the shoulder of the tyre.
It is going at quite a rate - as in easily twice as fast as the outer.
From what I can see I have 3 adjustments on the lower wishbone cam bolts plus an adjustment on the track rod end.
Which ones would you play with? And why.
I don’t want it perfect just better than it is, I won’t take it to be laser aligned as I have had two experiences lately with idiots from a different planet than ours telling me I will have to put the ride height back to standard before they would look at it, one guy said he had done loads of them del ee sea as then asked me where my strut spring had gone.
So go on what would you do and why?
PS. my front end is in bits so everything is easy to get too. _________________ Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Google Sponsor
|
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 15:44 Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join! |
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
andyman
Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 5602 Location: Penrith
|
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 19:49 Post subject: |
|
|
If only one front tyre is wearing unevenly, it is most likely the cam bolt on the wishbone that needs adjusting, to straighten the vertical alignment or camber of the wheel. Wear on the inner edge indicates the wheel is leaning inboard at the top. Check that the nearside tyre isn't just wearing less obviously. Are you suffering any wheel vibration, and is the wear even all round the tyre? Sometimes, a damaged tyre where the tread has been weakened, will wear more as the tread area is bulging outwards at that point. How long have the tyres been on, and did the commencement of this wear follow any incident or work on your suspension/steering? _________________ Andy C L300 Super Exceed - over 100 smiles per gallon! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Deker
Joined: 08 Mar 2008 Posts: 3833 Location: Borehamwood
|
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 21:07 Post subject: |
|
|
Today I checked and adjusted tracking on Preciousgem/s L400.
The L/F tyre was wearing on the outside, so – first jack up check for any steering joint play, none noticed.
Now check tracking, using my Kismet Dynamic Tracking gauge, it was way out = in excess of 40 ft side slip per mile, inwards
The steering wheel was off centre, so –
using some clever mathematics, i.e. waving my hands in the air, pointing in direction of wheel tracking and steering wheel off centre,
(you would need to see me do it to understand)
I figured which track rod to adjust, and which way, in or out.
After adjustment, the lady drove car “round the block” and said “It no longer pulls to the left, and the steering wheel is straight"
Mr D |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Fostlongstrider Lifetime member
Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 2590 Location: Hedon, East Yorks
|
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:12 Post subject: |
|
|
I had new track rod ends at last MOT and garage said they had reset the tracking.
After going to the Lakes and back steering did not feel right and was squealing on tight turns.
At home found inside of both front tyres were worn, one to fail level.
Took her to a 4 wheel laser alignment centre and they had L300 2WD and 4WD settings on their computer.
Both wheels were 3 degrees too much toe in, reset toe in and had no problem and no squealing since. _________________ Ian.
All the best from the East Riding of Yorkshire.
'93 L300 Super Exceed Corse Gray over Grace Silver.Auto.
Flying Brick Supporter. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
YOZA
Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 2423 Location: The centre of the universe
|
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:06 Post subject: |
|
|
Fostlongstrider wrote: |
Both wheels were 3 degrees too much toe in, reset toe in and had no problem and no squealing since. |
So in simpletons language toe in is reduced by lengthening the track rod bar on the offending side. _________________ Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Lewis Site Admin
Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 16298 Location: Huddersfield
|
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:35 Post subject: |
|
|
There is a bit more to it than just changing the toe-in, as changing one part of the suspension affects the others, on both sides.
The mechanic has to keep adjusting various parts until all of them are within the parameters, as shown on the screen. I get mine done every two years, unless there has been a major part replaced, such as a wishbone or a ball joint; then they are redone straight after it.
I guess I'm lucky that my local place has mechanics who not only go offroad themselves; but also build dune buggies and trail bikes, as well as do HGV recoveries. _________________
Copyright is retained for all my photos. Please don't copy them without asking permission
Do not blindly go where the path may lead you. Go where there is no path and leave a trail that others may follow!
ルイス |
|
Back to top |
|
|
YOZA
Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 2423 Location: The centre of the universe
|
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:35 Post subject: |
|
|
Lewis wrote: |
I guess I'm lucky that my local place has mechanics who not only go offroad themselves; but also build dune buggies and trail bikes, as well as do HGV recoveries. |
Can you forward me their details and who to ask for / I don’t mind a trip out if these guys are not afraid of a non standard imported odd ball vehicle. _________________ Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Lewis Site Admin
Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 16298 Location: Huddersfield
|
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 13:29 Post subject: |
|
|
Their fetails and contact info are all in this sticky post, in this section:- http://www.MDOCUK.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32388
HTH _________________
Copyright is retained for all my photos. Please don't copy them without asking permission
Do not blindly go where the path may lead you. Go where there is no path and leave a trail that others may follow!
ルイス |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Deker
Joined: 08 Mar 2008 Posts: 3833 Location: Borehamwood
|
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 18:42 Post subject: |
|
|
Fostlongstrider wrote: |
At home found inside of both front tyres were worn, one to fail level.
Both wheels were 3 degrees too much toe in, reset toe in and had no problem and no squealing since. |
That does not compute :?
If the wheels were toeing IN, then tyre/s would wear on OUTside.
Mr D |
|
Back to top |
|
|
andyman
Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 5602 Location: Penrith
|
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 19:22 Post subject: |
|
|
What Deker said. I agree. As said before, if only one tyre has uneven wear, then tracking is NOT the main fault. As Iain's experience shows, faulty tracking gave wear equally on both front tyres. Adjusting one TRE may correct the tracking fault, but will leave your steering wheel turned while driving in a straight line. Worn ball joints or wishbone bushes can also give camber-type wear. _________________ Andy C L300 Super Exceed - over 100 smiles per gallon! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
YOZA
Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 2423 Location: The centre of the universe
|
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 16:17 Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks
Silly question time again - my drivers side tyre is wearing on the inside edge hugely as in / 5-6mm in three months as you know.
Why can’t I just copy the measurements on the good side which is wearing normally, then copy to the bad side ?
When I say measurements I mean from the tie rod end and lower wish bone adjusters.
TIA _________________ Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Lewis Site Admin
Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 16298 Location: Huddersfield
|
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 16:25 Post subject: |
|
|
Assuming it is the trackrod that is out then there is no harm in trying it, apart from possibly having to replace the tyre sooner. _________________
Copyright is retained for all my photos. Please don't copy them without asking permission
Do not blindly go where the path may lead you. Go where there is no path and leave a trail that others may follow!
ルイス |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Deker
Joined: 08 Mar 2008 Posts: 3833 Location: Borehamwood
|
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 18:49 Post subject: |
|
|
andyman wrote: |
1) As said before, if only one tyre has uneven wear, then tracking is NOT the main fault.
2) Adjusting one TRE may correct the tracking fault, but will leave your steering wheel turned while driving in a straight line. Worn ball joints or wishbone bushes can also give camber-type wear. |
1) Not necessarily so. Do bear in mind Road Camber,
I find that I'm always having to "pull the wheel" slightly to the Right, to account for the "slip effect"
So. If the left tyre wears on inside (as in Preciousgems case) Tracking was IN
OR as in Yosa's case = Tracking Out, then I would expect the Right tyre to wear on the inside
2) When I adjust tracking, I take into account which way the steering wheel is pointing - Read my post above.
Yosa. Note my No. 1
The First check is Always Upper and Lower swivel ball joints, quick look at arm bushes, if appears okay then adjust tracking - Then go from there.
I've had my L400 for 11 years, never had 4 Wheel alignment check. All my tyres wear evenly
Mr D |
|
Back to top |
|
|
andyman
Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 5602 Location: Penrith
|
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 19:55 Post subject: |
|
|
5 - 6mm inner edge wear is more than road camber could ever produce on its own. That has to be a serious steering camber misalignment, whether caused by worn components, mis-adjustment, or even distortion/damage. _________________ Andy C L300 Super Exceed - over 100 smiles per gallon! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
YOZA
Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 2423 Location: The centre of the universe
|
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 15:45 Post subject: |
|
|
okay job is now done,
The reason it was so far out was that I had asked a garage to change my track rod ends in the past whilst I was away, and in their infinite wisdom they found only one had excess play, so they kept the locking nut where it was and wound the knackered one off. They replaced the ball joint with one of the two I supplied and gave me the truck back, with the receptionist simply saying the job was done.
I knew nothing about the other ball joint and wasn't given it back, so off I went, the clunking through the steering had gone so I was happy.Although my steering whel which used to point 5mins or so to the left was pointing 5 mins or so to the right.
Fast forward 4 months or so, and I have now found through a small family run business that the two ball joints are different in length, by at least 10mm, so when the garage left the lock nut on the steering rack shaft for reference it was infact 10mm out.
I know this now as the friendly old guy who reset the tracking showed me the difference in length and the original rusty lock nut next to a newish looking ball joint.
PS. My tracking was a tenner, nothing special just to point the front wheels in the same direction.
_________________ Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
PinkPig Lifetime member
Joined: 05 Aug 2004 Posts: 2720 Location: Southampton, UK
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
andyman
Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 5602 Location: Penrith
|
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 22:51 Post subject: |
|
|
I am surprised, for the reasons given previously, that this tracking fault has not produced similar wear on both front tyres. Keep an eye on this, wear should be improved by the retracking, but if you continue to get uneven wear, check the camber as well. _________________ Andy C L300 Super Exceed - over 100 smiles per gallon! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Deker
Joined: 08 Mar 2008 Posts: 3833 Location: Borehamwood
|
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 18:09 Post subject: |
|
|
You need to be an Engineer and Physicist to understand - - - I do 8-)
I did give a brief explanation above.
Mr D |
|
Back to top |
|
|
andyman
Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 5602 Location: Penrith
|
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 21:10 Post subject: |
|
|
Most roads have a discernible camber, Deker. If what you say is true, all cars must be set up with anti-camber compensation, otherwise all cars would have serious wear on the inner edge of the nearside tyre (which they don't) They would be hell to drive, once you crossed the channel! The only difference I notice on heavily cambered roads is that I have to apply a little more right hand down. _________________ Andy C L300 Super Exceed - over 100 smiles per gallon! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Deker
Joined: 08 Mar 2008 Posts: 3833 Location: Borehamwood
|
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 17:38 Post subject: |
|
|
andyman wrote: |
A) Most roads have a discernible camber, Deker. If what you say is true, all cars must be set up with anti-camber compensation,
A B) otherwise all cars would have serious wear on the inner edge of the nearside tyre (which they don't)
B) heavily cambered roads is that I have to apply a little more right hand down. |
A) Camber is very noticeable in LTI Taxis, not quite so bad with the Delica - HOWEVER, this year I had four new tyres,
that made a massive difference, the car steers so much better with a set of matching tyres
A B) Incorrect, tyres run, tread flat on surface, both front tyres share the load.
B) Heavily cambered roads try driving a TX model taxi
An L400 Delica, the 300 also are luxury compared to the taxi.
Take a taxi on those shale/rocky tracks we went on this year - You would need a Four point harness to keep you in the seat
Mr D |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|