Thanks for the support lads, appreciated. Albideli - unfortunately it was dark, wet and under the lights of a garage up the road from him, couldn't get under it for a skeg, but the rest looked mint, as it did in the advert, so I thought it was well looked after all round, how wrong can you be lol
I'll keep yous updated, thanks for the messages 8-)
Joined: 30 Jun 2012 Posts: 468 Location: Northampton
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 22:37 Post subject:
On the basis that there are two sides to every story (caveat emptor v trade description)
Thus the factual question would include (as you highlighted)
consideration of :- 12 months MoT versus MoT failure (quoted advisory chassis rust being a potential case in point)
(and this seems to me to be the principal basis of your claim)
BTW Technically speaking: Am I right in assuming the second MoT over-rides the first (12 month validity) one ? Your post suggests this is the case. Just to be clear - you cannot legally drive on the original one ? (regardless of other considerations)
If not, as implied, then presumably you have a written independent expert advice as to roadworthiness/safety (as a refund has been offered if delivered) copied to the vendor (as with the MoT) by registered post ?
It is a 20 year old car, not mint, but you are right to say you rely on information that was written and which you therefore reasonably believed to be true.
But by buying a vehicle in the dark, with no independent inspection, and possibly no written warranty, suggests you might consider taking some of the responsibility yourself.
But to sell a car with "no" oil and overheating issues (given the head/gasket sensibilities) seems not to be in the vendors best interests in any sense (I presume there is no defined warranty provided).
Given that only one side of the story is being given I would be interested in the facts of the matter. I appreciate you are not happy and feel aggrieved, understandably, especially at this time of year.
I hope you get it resolved, and sooner rather than later.
In any event. I am interested to hear how things develop.
Whatever happens, don't let it spoil your Christmas and New Year.
We should be able to trust an Mot - especially if its 12 months and - especially if coming from a dealer.!
I've learnt the hard way myself but also learnt a lot about mechanics from it !!
Don't give up on it though - but saying that I doubt you will being ex Bootneck !!
All the best with it - let us know how it goes _________________ A Little Knowledge is Dangerous and expensive! especially if your me Mending anything!!
Joined: 30 Jun 2012 Posts: 468 Location: Northampton
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 23:53 Post subject:
We don't know who issued the 12 month MoT but the story suggests whoever did it may well have some questions to answer.
I assume most people don't put all their faith solely in an MoT. When I got mine I had it looked over (and given a full service) by a Mitsi dealership.
For me the MoT is not just a necessity ... I welcome identification of all and any issues / advisories as things always get worse sooner or later so I'd rather know and get things fixed.
I have added a tigweld header tank, audible warning temp gauge etc. as I don't want any problems that can be avoided
- which is frustrating when EU breakdown cover is often restricted to vehicles over 10, or 15, or 20 years (as mine is now just over 20 years and is well-serviced with no known issues). MoT due in January (I am hoping for a clean report)
A lot or most people put most of there faith in an Mot from a dealer and if the motor looks good on the outside they forget what is lurking below - I have done in the past.
Nico - I reckon the the trading standards will look into who issued the Mot and hopefully act accordingly
Most Mot stations have been a pain in the bum to us all for minor issues so it makes it a joke when a dealer somehow gets a shed through - I thought or hoped that had all stopped.
Anyway - its getting late and santas not gonna come if your not asleep !!
Merry Xmas !! _________________ A Little Knowledge is Dangerous and expensive! especially if your me Mending anything!!
Joined: 30 Jun 2012 Posts: 468 Location: Northampton
Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 19:09 Post subject:
Green Grouch wrote:
Most Mot stations have been a pain in the bum to us all for minor issues so it makes it a joke when a dealer somehow gets a shed through - I thought or hoped that had all stopped.
In France they have dedicated MoT centres.
I had to have new ball joints last time (Jan 2014) for mine and at a recent service I was told I will need to replace the rubber gaiters protecting them. It is an MoT failure.
So it not the MoT as much as frustration at not getting things done right the first time.
Insofar as this thread currently refers to serious chassis rust (holes), it seems a reasonably on its face a potentially serious case.
The other aspect seems to me that this is not the first time buyers have had problems but it is only now it is being investigated formally - why not before, I wonder ? I can understand folk sounding rather miffed but "innocent until proven guilty" should be kept in mind.
In my opinion, the threatening behaviour (reference to marines) doesn't help the argument, and making written reference to it (on the thread) is not advatageous I suspect.
Personally I find it useful to try and see it from the other guys side, for some better perspective; as well as keeping to the facts not the emotion.
Presumably if the alleged charges are as stated then due process will apply. Any reason not to think so ?
Wheels appear to have been set in motion. Don't let it spoil the holiday season.
Sometimes when we get ripped off and suddenly the so called gent, that was so polite before he took our cash then turns into a total unapproachable waste of space - gets you a bit wound up !
I have no idea what the guy involved here is like but some people sadly only listen to one language and only when they have two !
Lets leave it there for now and hope he gets some compensation and Nico - Give us an update on this thread - Crack On ! _________________ A Little Knowledge is Dangerous and expensive! especially if your me Mending anything!!
Thanks for your comments Green Grouch, you're absolutely right, it's most frustrating, and thanks for recognising that
illapulito - I was merely describing my experience for the thread "would you buy a Deli off this man?", and giving a factual account, so other buyers can beware if buying off this bloke.
I also think that the fact there are many pages dedicated to this guy, and several from the Pajero owners club, with many complaints of the same ilk, and the fact he has already been prosecuted for the very same thing,(it is not the first time he is being investigated formally, look in previous threads), prevents me from "seeing the other guys side", especially as he knew the vehicle was bought to transport my young family, and the chassis would have collapsed had I gone over a decent pothole. It is this that makes me a bit ' factually emotional',and unable to see the 'better perspective' that you mention, I'm afraid.
The "threatening behaviour" you mention was nothing of the sort - I also mentioned that I would be asking the police to be in attendance - can't get much more law abiding than that!
I really don't think it matters a jot what tactics I use, as Trading Standards fine the guy in court, I see none of his fine. It's totally up to me to try and get my money back, if this involves embarrassing him to do so, in front of the law, then so be it!
Yes, due process is already in force, I have no misgivings about the case.
Andyman - thanks also for your comment, hopefully it will be, but not before I get my money back lol
It is not the MoT mainly - you can't rely on that once it has left the garage - but the description that a trader gives that has to be accurate. But Dean seems to describe one vehicle, which you can't buy for reasons that may be legitimate, but he has another which you can buy but you don't have the written advert for that one. Whether or not this is deliberate, I've no idea. Sometimes he gives his location as Wigan and sometimes Hindley (which is an outlier of Wigan)
As someone who was ripped off by this person (in 2013) I would add to the voices saying be wary of him.
BTW there is another Delica trader based only 2 miles from him (I think his name is Gary) who sold me a decent Deli - it is perhaps unfortunate that they are geographically so close; check who it is not just where it is!
Joined: 05 Aug 2004 Posts: 2720 Location: Southampton, UK
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:08 Post subject:
Nightmare. Best of luck getting your money back. Take photos of everything. Also maybe even video evidence with a mechanic describing what they see so the vehicle condition is full recorded in every way as it stands at the moment.
Joined: 28 Feb 2012 Posts: 185 Location: Doncaster
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:32 Post subject:
I used a system to protect evidence in copyright cases when I was a designer, mainly to date the evidence for an eventual court hearing. All work done in the studio was copied dated signed and sent through the post to ourselves back at the studio, when the envelope arrived it would be dated by a government body The Post. Then the envelope would be opened only by the judge in front of the court, as witnesses.
In your case your independent diagnosis, pictures SD card with film. Paint bolts with coloured varnish so that if a bolt has been turned you can see the broken seal. THE EVIDENCE NEEDS TO BE THOROUGH.
Give him his car back and if anything has changed this will only aggravate his position in front of a judge.
I hope you get satisfaction, sorry to hear you got stung.
Joined: 30 Jun 2012 Posts: 468 Location: Northampton
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 21:08 Post subject:
It sounds like you need to get some legal advice.
I. the procedure for getting and independent inspection ' photographic evidence report in the event issues/faults are disputed subsequently
2. not to jeopardise any potential claim due to doing / not doing something
Whatever the whys and wherefores of any individual case the apparent reports of a pattern of behaviour warrants consideration.
There seems to be a significant price variance between private sales and dealers prices. That is fine if it is reasonably stated that the dealer has identified and remedied faults.
Circumstances alter cases but on the other hand warranting a 20 year old vehicle is not reasonable if you also want bargain prices.
The curious factor thats seems to apply in the cases mentioned is that buyers bought in good faith without using an independent inspection service.
Yes, I understand the statements made about condition ... but caveat emptor always.
Whilst I sympathise with your situation my comment that I've made several times before is why didn't you road test and inspect the vehicle, irrelevant what the seller states the condition is, if these faults appeared on the way home they'd have shown up on the test drive, unless its less than 3 yrs old any vehicle wants inspecting, trust no-one.
On a random, blindfold, pin-sticker's method of buying a vehicle, you would be very unlucky to end up with the odds of buying such dogs as this guy appears to trade in. Does he seek out the cheapest rubbish no one else will buy? I'm sure Matt Albright on Rogue Traders could do a good expose'. _________________ Andy C L300 Super Exceed - over 100 smiles per gallon!
Joined: 26 Apr 2015 Posts: 7 Location: North East England
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 17:56 Post subject: Dean Rosenthal Delica
Hi I am in a big problem Dean Rosenthal has not delivered a Delica I bought off him and its been months he has £4000 of my money does anyone have his address so I can get legal proceedings started the van I bought has the REG P291 JRB ( I wish I had found this forum some time ago
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