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L300 Air con & viscous fan removal.

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Defender



Joined: 04 May 2010
Posts: 337
Location: In the van

PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:37    Post subject: L300 Air con & viscous fan removal. Reply with quote

Hi all

 I have decided to completely remove all my air con system and main viscous fan. I have several reasons for wanting to remove the air con;
1) it isn't working (compressor doesn't engage)
2) If it was working I wouldn't use it.
3) simplicity. I am a great fan of simplicity, rempving all the air con includind wiring, fuses relays all piping and radiators will make maintenance of other items easier without these bits in the way.
4) I want to take some rust prevention / waxoiling measures that will be easier without all these gubbins in the way.
5) it will make the vehicle lighter and un cluttered
6)I want to remove the steps (relocate transmission cooler) to increase departure angle etc.
7) I want to use the gap that will be left by removing the rear air con as a gas bottle location point for my caming cooker located above it. (My bus is a camper conversion)
8) without the compressor belt there should be less strain on the crank pulley that are prone to dterioration????

So with all of the above I can't think of any reason to keep it? My problem I need help with is; I don't really know anything about aircon so when removing the air con do I need to take any precautions, with the gas or liquids in side the system or can I just uncouple and remove it? any thoughts or recommendations will be greatly recieved.

I also want to remove the viscous fan assembly to aid fuel consumption and reduce the (quite considerable at times) fan noise. My Deli has always run very cold so much so that I swapped the thermostat for a new genuine one to make sure it was working correctly. On my previous Land Rovers I use to remove it all together without an electric replacement without any problems, have any Deli owners done this.?

Kev
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Yojimbo



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1202
Location: Bucks

PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 13:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get an AC place to suck it out, then rip it all off, it's probably illegal to vent it, and it doesn't help mother earth (but then you are going to drive all over her in 4 wheel drive, so maybe it's not such an issue :D
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grasshole (RIP)



Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 1230
Location: Neston

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 18:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been pondering this myself  Razz
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BFG



Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 340
Location: Exmouth, Devon, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 23:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same here as my Aircon is useless/broke.
Who ever gets round to removing air con system 1st should photo the progress and make a removal guide imo.
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Defender



Joined: 04 May 2010
Posts: 337
Location: In the van

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 0:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll get my camera out  Wink
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schutzgrabe



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
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Location: Thringstone

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 16:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

When i got my L300 from Bentos, he had removed the viscous fan and replaced it with 2 Electric ones ,they stopped working and the Temp shot up so much so that on a trip of less than 15 miles, when i stopped the expansion tank was boiling ! I removed said fans replaced the viscous and now it rarely gets above quarter on the gauge . On the same subject if you  want the parts i took out there still in the shed !Frame that bolts directly to the rad and the fans, not sure why they didn't work, maybe something repairable! so you can come get organise your own courier or use the Deli Mail!
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Kwales



Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Posts: 235
Location: Bolton

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 18:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking of removing mine aswell, I took the belt and idler off last year, but every thing else is still there. Could do with removing the compressor so I can trace an oil leak I've got above it.

I don't need it but I've got a few friends that have used there compressors to produce compressed air.
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Kwales



Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Posts: 235
Location: Bolton

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 18:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

Give us a shout Kev when you take yours off I come round and give you a lift if I can so if we make any mistakes its on yours Laughing
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Dantheman



Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 312
Location: Zumerzet

PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 17:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've removed the rear compressor / gubbins from mine..
(it never worked and the belt had been removed before I got it)

Its all pretty simple at the back, except its plumbed into the main water system :/
For now I've just bypassed them (there are 2 pipes and I just looped some hose from one into the other!) but there is probably a nicer way to solve it..

Also note that the rear heater controls are fed directly into it...
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Defender



Joined: 04 May 2010
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Location: In the van

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 17:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

schutzgrabe wrote:
When i got my L300 from Bentos, he had removed the viscous fan and replaced it with 2 Electric ones ,they stopped working and the Temp shot up so much so that on a trip of less than 15 miles, when i stopped the expansion tank was boiling ! I removed said fans replaced the viscous and now it rarely gets above quarter on the gauge . On the same subject if you  want the parts i took out there still in the shed !Frame that bolts directly to the rad and the fans, not sure why they didn't work, maybe something repairable! so you can come get organise your own courier or use the Deli Mail!


Sorry for the delayed reply I've been in Egypt and now off to Lanzarotte tomorrow.
Thanks for that input and the kind offer of the fans but I will give them a miss for now if someone else wants them??? Interesting to know you deffo need a replacement if you remove the viscous. Thank you
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Defender



Joined: 04 May 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 17:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kwales wrote:
Give us a shout Kev when you take yours off I come round and give you a lift if I can so if we make any mistakes its on yours Laughing


lol Nutcase  Laughing   Laughing
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Defender



Joined: 04 May 2010
Posts: 337
Location: In the van

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 17:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dantheman wrote:
I've removed the rear compressor / gubbins from mine..
(it never worked and the belt had been removed before I got it)

Its all pretty simple at the back, except its plumbed into the main water system :/
For now I've just bypassed them (there are 2 pipes and I just looped some hose from one into the other!) but there is probably a nicer way to solve it..

Also note that the rear heater controls are fed directly into it...


 I was going to leave the heater system in and just remove the Air con bit which appears to be on separate mountings and just butted up to the heater side.
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jordan



Joined: 26 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 21:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there anything that should be watched out for? Empty the gas, loop the coolant for the rear heater; will anything else be affected when removing the entire AC system and rear heater?
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Mystery Machine



Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 1837
Location: Bristol

PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 0:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've removed the complete system on two of my Delica's now. Dead easy. I did my first one in 2006 and my second the year after.

If you want to keep the rear heater but remove the rear evaporator unit you'll need to blank the big aperture that links the two and the large hole in the 'inner sill' area. I removed the whole lot but from memory, if the AC aperture is blanked, the rest of the system should still work in the rear (can't be 100% on that though)

A lot of the bits in the pic are the AC system. I removed the front condensor and fan (in front of the radiator), the condenser and fan from under the passenger footwell, the drier/accumulator, the compressor, the rear evaporator and heater unit, ALL the pipework, ALL the wiring/fuses & relays and all the rear vent pipework. A good few KG's saved.



Here is the majority of the pipework, both condensors, fans and the accumulator.



The wiring removed from under the dash (it's a modular loom that just unplugs as the whole AC loom) and also from the rear area which is integrated into the rear heater wiring too, so you might want to think about leaving that bit of wiring in?


Rear evaporator (black unit) and heater/blower unit (white)


Actually, I've just realised, you can't remove the rear evaporator and still keep the full function of the rear heater/blower working. The blower brings the air in through the large aperture on the right of the blower unit (as shown in the above photo where you can see the fan blower) and directs it into the area where the heater matrix is. If 'warm air' is selected, then it directs the air through the heater matrix and out of the aperture on the left side of the blower unit where you can see the matrix. This blows the warm air through the floor vents only.

Cold air/AC air is blown past the matrix and through the evaporator which then directs the air up the B pillar and to the roof vents. Basically, if you remove the rear AC system you'll lose ALL air going to the roof vents. If you keep the blower unit and blank off the exit to where the evaporator used to be, you'll only be able to get air through the floor/side vents under the control panel. I hope that makes sense?

You'll also need to blank the aperture/apertures in the sill.

Here is a shot of the apertures in the sill with the complete rear unit removed (this was from the first one I did - wiring not yet removed). The right hand aperture is where the air is drawn in to the blower/fan from the big grille under the rear heater controls. The middle one where the warm air is blown back in through the floor/side vents from the matrix. The left hand aperture is where the air from the evaporator is blown up the B pillar vent pipe to all the roof vents. You could, of course, run a pipe from the end of the blower unit (where the AC evaporator was attached) and run this to the B pillar vent pipe, bit it'll be a bit of work and you won't end up gaining much space.


Here is how I blanked the apertures on mine (I did the same on my second one too - the Delica in my signature picture)


I cut them to fit inside the recess and sealed them in really well with silicone (these apertures go straight up to the area below the heater controls/interior, so they need to be watertight!

In this shot (the Delica from my sig pic) you can see where I have bypassed the heater pipes. I just looped one of the original connection pipes for the matrix round onto the other metal pipe. It kinks a bit, but the flow is still fine.


This shot shows where the interior vent pipes, vents, heater controls, everything has been removed. The remaining loom is for things like the rear illumination, cigar lighter etc....most of which I cut out and I was left with just three wires which I used for additional 12v sockets (one 12v switch/accessory feed and one permanent 12v)


To remove EVERYTHING as show, there is quite a bit of work removing the rear interior panel etc...but removing all the 'gubbins' from under the vehicle is pretty straightforward. There is quite a bit of pipework and I found it easier just to hacksaw through it because a lot of the joints/connections were siezed solid and just bent the soft/thin pipes when I tried to undo them. It only takes a matter of seconds to cut through with a junior hacksaw.

You'll also need to blank the hole in the front footwell where the two pipes run into the cab. I just cut a piece of polyproylene sheet (lid of an icecream tub!) and siliconed it in place.

The only thing I didn't remove was the evaporator from behind the dashboard, but all the wiring and pipework was removed....along with ALL the wiring and gubbins from inside my cool box which not only saved more weight, but also made it a much larger storage space....almost double the internal size without the heater/AC stuff in there:

Cool box in pieces


SOO much more storage now!


A bit later on I pulled it apart again and drilled some holes


...and fitted a Pajero 12v socket (because they have this cool cap!)


Which means passengers can charge their phones while I use the 'normal' socket for my SatNav.




Here you can see where all the wiring, fuses and relays are now gone from inside the dash. Only the evaporator remains. I intend to make a direct link pipe soon to fit between the blower motor and the heater matrix unit so that I can bin the evaporator which sits between them.


I did this on my MX5 earlier this year by making a link pipe from scratch because the apertures of the blower unit and matirix unit aren't like conventional pipes!

Just to give you an idea what I mean about the work involved:

One evaporator between the blower unit and matrix unit (dash removed)


Evaporator removed


Matrix unit aperture


Blower unit aperture


Evaporator unit about to be binned


...but I cut the aperture flanges off first


Evaporator aperture flanges clamped in place and some creative card/glue gun work to bridge the gap from rectangular output to triangular input


That'll do for the card 'template'


Out with the fuzzy felt


Time to make a mess




It fits!




Quick trim of the 'hairy bits' and a rub down


Extra 'steady' bracket knocked up from some spare metal I had lying around


A lick of paint and fitted


Quite a bit of work for something that'll never be seen, but as I said, the last little bits will be the trickier. One benefit (as well as weight saving) is that it makes the blowers SO much better! No evaporator to slow the flow down.

Sorry for the long post, but hopefully that'll help with the removal of the complete system?

Any questions....just ask. ;)
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Mystery Machine



Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 1837
Location: Bristol

PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, and I forgot to mention about the viscous fan last night!

Don't be in too much of a rush to ditch it. Despite what people say, viscous fans aren't that inefficient. When they are working properly (and the ones fitted to Mitubishi's are very reliable) they don't have much friction most of the time and put a lot less load on the engine than people make out. It doesn't take a lot to stop on spinning when the engine is at normal operating temp. I wouldn't advise using your hand, but a bit of rolled up newspaper will stop it very easily.

Removing it and not fitting electric fans is not a good idea. Due to the location of the engine and radiator, tucked really far back from the front of the vehicle, they don't get a lot of air movement. If you do want to remove the viscous fan then electric fans are a must. Delica's, if running a decent rad, water pump and good coolant, run pretty cool most of the time but to gain temp very quickly if towing, driving up long steep hills or sitting in traffic on a hot day.

Fititng electric fans isn't difficult, but you need to make sure you fit a decent thermal switch with the right heat range. I wouldn't trust a manual switch because there will always be the time you forget to look at the guage and then you'll quickly regret it! Having a manual overide switch isn't a bad idea, but a decent thermal sensor & switch is a must.

Regarding relocating the auto transmission cooler from under the front offside footwell, there is quite a bit of flex in the existing connection pipes, so just shorten the brackets (especially the rear end of the cooler) and it should tuck up nicely under the footwell. If you're handy with a welder I reckon you could have the bracket out, chop it up, reweld it shorter and refit it all in under an hour. Just remember, the further up you mount it, the less air flow you'll have to it and the auto box does rely heavily on it to keep the oil from overheating. Something to bear in mind.

When I removed my steps, I simply let nature relocate the cooler for me. A few enthusiastic off road trips saw it pushed up out of the way quite nicely (the arms on the bracket just bent more each time I hit something). No damage was done to the cooler and I personally reckon the original front steps are NOT good for protection....they give a good few inches less ground clearance and will very quickly get bashed up into the cooler and would probably cause more damage than letting muddy ruts and a few smooth rocks do the job. Obviosuly if you cut & weld the bracket beforehand then you'll have no worries.

Don't go to the bother of relocating it into a different place because you'll not gain anything and probably end up with even less air flow and therefore potentially give a greater chance of the auto box overheating.

Food for thought.
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Mystery Machine



Joined: 16 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

...and another thing....

When removing the AC system, it is actually against the law to allow the gases to escape by opening up the system. You technically should take it to an AC specialist to have the system drained down properly, but from personal experience (on more than just a few Delica's) if the system isn't working then there is probably a high chance of the system having gradually lost the refridgerant over a period of time - hence why the system no longer works.

On the two Delica's of mine where I have removed the AC system, I just disconnected one pipe and nothing came out. Both systems were comepletely empty. If you were to do this there is a good chance nothing will come out. If you do get a 'leak' of gases, DO NOT breath it, keep well away and DON'T tell anyone ;)

It's not ideal to allow the gases to escape to air, but in the grand scheme of things going on in the world today, it really isn'y anywhere near as bad as people make out - you won't kill the planet when you think of all the millions of cans of deodorant that uses to have CFC's in them...and the millions of fridges that were just scrapped, and all the industry stuff that went on before the laws were changed. Like I say, it's not ideal, but one Delica's worth of refridgerant isn't as bad as the media, government or enviornmentalists will have you believe. It's your call though ;)
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Defender



Joined: 04 May 2010
Posts: 337
Location: In the van

PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow; thanks very much Bruce that's ace and very kind of you to spend so much time on this detailed reply to help us. In reference to keeping the rear heater working I would be quite happy just to have it coming in through the lower vents. So are the 2 sill apatures to the floor vents and roof vents blanked of between them inside the sill preventing all air movement between them?

 Thank you very much for your input. The making of the linking tube on your MX5 was brilliant.
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Mystery Machine



Joined: 16 Mar 2004
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Location: Bristol

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 13:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kevan,

The three apertures in the sill each have a separate vent pipe which goes up inside the inner panels. The one on the right (front most aperture) has a vent pipe that runs up the B-pillar and feeds the roof vents. Removing the AC unit and blanking the hole shouldn't affect the function of the other two apertures because the blower vent for the floor and the vent that the fan draws the air from are separate.

In this pic, on the very left, you can see the vent pipe for the B-pillar (well, I think it's that one anyway) which is completely separate to the other two vents.


I hope that makes sense? It'll all become clear once you start removing the system anyway.

If you fancy a trip to Bristol, I'd be happy to help you remove everything in the workshop. That way you've got another pair of hands and a dry workshop to carry it out in just in case the weather is being a bit foul!

Let me know what you think?
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ciaran15



Joined: 23 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 21:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow great post mystery machine, seems like you really know your stuff  Wink
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blimthepixie



Joined: 03 Nov 2012
Posts: 56
Location: Snods Edge

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too have a Deli with a knackered AC system, been thinking of ripping it out. Looking at this post it looks like I need to rethink my strategy and take it apart gently.

I was also wondering... My ATF rad bust a leak over the last couple of days, as I was scrabbling around underneath bypassing and remove it I noticed the rad for the AC. Could I use this as a stop gap in replace of the ATF, if I find a place to secure it and add different hoses to fit?

Surely a rad is a rad no matter what fluid flows through it? Only reason I ask is I have had no luck on the internet and living in the arse end of cornwall I can't seem to find any breakers.

Cheers

T
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