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Gah! Big water leak!


 
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tomkranz
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Location: Crowthorne, Berkshire

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:11    Post subject: Gah! Big water leak! Reply with quote

I noticed the temp gauge was creeping up a bit, which was odd as it's never really moved much past the cold mark at the bottom since I got the van.

Removed the radiator cap and noticed that I couldn't see any water. Poured in about three litres till I could see the water level again.

Put everything back, then heard a trickling noise. A little stream of water was coming out from under the car.

After a lot of faffing around with torches, removed the fan cowling, yada yada yada, it seems to be coming from the front of the engine, where the shaft for the fan comes out. Radiator itself is battered but sound, it looks like the hoses have all been replaced over the last few years as they're all good as well.

The old girl isn't using oil, and the oil itself is black - no mayonnaise. As I said, the temp gauge has never really moved much past cold, so as far as I can tell the head gasket hasn't failed.

The water seems to drain out until the radiator water level is on par with the fan shaft (so about half full) and then the trickle stops. Problem is, you've then only got half the coolant in the system. hence why the temp gauge climbs up halfway. While the water's hot it moves around the system and more seems to leak out from that spot.

I do a 30 mile round trip to the station every day in traffic - she doesn't overheat but I'm refilling the radiator each morning when cold.

I'm stumped and more than a bit worried - that area looks like an absolute sod to get to, and I have no idea what I'd need to replace even if I could unbolt everything and get to it.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,
TOM
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Mystery Machine



Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 1837
Location: Bristol

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

99.9% sure it's your water pump which is what the viscous fan bolts onto. Mine went a few months back with exactly the same symptoms (water pouring out etc...)

It can be done without taking the cam belt off but how confident are you at working on your motor? You'll need to remove the fan cowling (the two smaller parts - not the main one) then the fan itself. Next remove the alternator belts, AC belt and power steering belt. Undo the power steering pump (the pump - not the pipes) and move this out of the way.

Next is to remove the bottom hose (easier to just unbolt the thermostat housing) and the thermostat.

Now remove the cam belt covers (top & bottom) and carefully remove the tensioner just to the side of the water pump. The tensioner is a bit tricky and you need to make sure you keep all the other pulleys where they are to keep your timing correct.

Once you get to this stage, you can unbolt the water pump and replace with a new one. Clean up the moutning face on the engine with a sharp blade to give a nice fresh surface (scrape off all old gasket and rub down with wire wool/wet & dry) and make sure you put lots of gasket sealant around the water pump before bolting it back on.

Refit is the opposite of the above, but probably worth fitting a new thermostat while you are at it.

Once all back together, fill up with water/anti-freeze and run the engine with the cap off for a while. Keep topping up as the water drops (it will drop as the water circulates). When the water starts to get hot, replace the cap and keep it running for a while to let the thermostat open and keep an eye for drips from underneath. No more drips means you've done a good job.... Wink

Regards,

Bruce.
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tomkranz
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

Super fast reply! Thanks so much for that. I've been panicking thinking something horrific had gone wrong.

A few of questions if you don't mind - I'm handy with a spanner but have never done anything major like this.

Where's the best place to get a new water pump from?
Is there anything else which will break/snap/make sense to replace at the same time?
Any idea how long it would take to do the job?

Would it make sense to replace the radiator at the same time?

Thanks!
TOM
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Mystery Machine



Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 1837
Location: Bristol

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of it is fairly straight forward - simply a case of unbolting things and making sure you make a note of which bolt goes where? (the cam belt covers have different length bolts for example)

I forgot to mention that you'll also need to remove the floorpan under the drivers seat but this is really easy (much easier than it looks) and you can follow this guide HERE for this stage.

I'd replace the belts (alternator, A/C and power steering) while you are at it. As for the radiator - not too sure because if the car is running cool anyway, then it is obviously working okay. Rads are fairly expensive (£100+) and can be a pig of a job because of the oil cooler for the automatic transmission that is built into the bottom of them - unless you have a manual gearbox? The pipes for the oil cooler are a swine to get to! Maybe leave this alone for now, do the water pump and thermostat and see how it runs. The radiator is a different job and you don't really lose much by doing it seperately.

The water pump itself....have a look HERE and HERE for some idea (Milners also sell them but their website is down at the moment!)

Thermostat is approx £10 from most motor factors.

Regarding the difficult parts - this is the tensioner for the cam belt. You need to remove the spring because this rests on a lug on the water pump. This spring is under a lot of tension and you'll need to be handy with a set of strong long nosed pliers to get this off. The best approach is to take your time and ask questions on here if you get stuck.

I would reckon on 3 to 4 hours to complete the job if you've never done it before - but most of this time will be checking and double checking what to remove and making a note of what is what....the job itself shouldn't take more than a couple of hours for a trained mechanic.

The alternator is a LOT easier to get to/adjust from above - but only when the power steering pump and thermostat are removed, so get this done before refitting the thermostat and P/S pump  Wink

Anything else you want to know - just ask.... 8-)

Bruce.
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tomkranz
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 17:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the info on this. In the end, after having a look, I thought the job would be beyond me, and so booked it into my local garage.

Good thing I did - water had been slightly leaking for a while, and all the bolts had nicely rusted into position. It's taken them 2 days to finish the work :-(

On the plus side, they didn't bill me for *all* the labour - which is a good thing to for a £19 part.

So, I can highly recommend Citroemech in Wokingham, Berkshire. They're very familiar with L300s ;-)

Cheers,
TOM
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PinkPig
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:00    Post subject: How long does a water pump last? Reply with quote

Mystery Machine wrote:
99.9% sure it's your water pump which is what the viscous fan bolts onto. Mine went a few months back with exactly the same symptoms (water pouring out etc...)


I bought ^^ this engine ^^ and had it fitted in my van a couple of years ago...and the water pump just started leaking - so how long does a water pump last? 14 years it seems!
And just like this thread - outsourced the job to the garage down the road  Wink
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1988 Delica L300 Star Wagon 2.5TD 5sp Manual.
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andyman



Joined: 08 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 23:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

This could be a timely warning. I've had mine 12 years and never changed the water pump. Timing belts and tensioners are bought as they are due for changing. It uses no water/coolant. Sod's law says as soon as I have changed the belts, the old water pump will start to leak!
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andyman



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 0:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS Mine has done 185,000km/115,000miles. Belts were changed before me at 82,000 km, and by me at 121,000km. No idea if it has ever had a new water pump - I've always kept the coolant green and clean, like it was when I bought it, and it has never had any cooling issues. What was the mileage on your engine when the pump went?
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PinkPig
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this one is on about 130,000 miles - bit vague as it had been out of the mystery machine for a while (the owner was converting to V6 petrol, a long project that I'm not sure was ever finished!) and I didn't ever find out what was on the clock when the engine was pulled. I'll have to see if I can find the reg and work back through MOTs.
My last engine was well over 300k km (so about 200k miles) and never had the water pump leak (unless someone else replaced it).

I would say that if you are in there doing all the timing belt then it would be worth doing the water pump and thermostat at the same time. Only another half dozen bolts. Many cars have the water pump as a service item to do at the same time and the belts (on old Vauxhall/Opel petrol engines the water pump was part of the tensioner!)
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1988 Delica L300 Star Wagon 2.5TD 5sp Manual.
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/__PinkPig___/

A never ending camper/restoration project
Project 1 - Pop-top camper conversion 2011-2015
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Fostlongstrider
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine had the water pump replaced when the engine overhaul was done as it was cracked.
Mitsubishi FI had a replacement pump as the bearing seal had gone.
Mitzi UK is 161,000 miles(approx as don’t know when speedo was converted).
Mitzi FI was done at 252,000km.
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andyman



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 23:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I've got plenty of time to buy one. It's up on stands in the garage at the moment. Rear oil seal and brakes replaced, but I have  pulled off the O/S plastic sill cover and cut out two areas of rot in the outer sill. Now need to remove the rear heater a/c unit so I can cut out the rot in the inner sill. Then across to replace the lower section of the n/s rear wheel arch where the mudflap is just managing to hang on. I may just cut it all out, make up the plates, and hand it to someone who can weld neatly, and just live on beans on toast. Perhaps not toast - that is due to become an expensive luxury!
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PinkPig
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 11:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

Water pump done. Garage charged four hours labour, most of which was getting to the water pump!
And it is being tested this weekend by wife and son who have just left for a climbing weekend in the Peak District  - 450 mile round trip should bed it in!
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1988 Delica L300 Star Wagon 2.5TD 5sp Manual.
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/__PinkPig___/

A never ending camper/restoration project
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Project 2 - Campervan the sequel - 2016 restoration, welding, respray, new interior, vertical pop...
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andyman



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Location: Penrith

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 19:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are a very trusting man. I would want to do the long-distance road test myself before I handed it over to anyone. Do you have an audible alarm on the temp gauge? I don't know how you sleep! Shocked  Very Happy
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PinkPig
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2022 20:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who wants to be stuck on the side of a road in a cloud of steam? I'm sat on the sofa watching TV!

Well reports from the front say it got there fine and is most of the way home again. So first 350 miles have been okay.
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The PINK PIG!
1988 Delica L300 Star Wagon 2.5TD 5sp Manual.
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/__PinkPig___/

A never ending camper/restoration project
Project 1 - Pop-top camper conversion 2011-2015
Project 2 - Campervan the sequel - 2016 restoration, welding, respray, new interior, vertical pop...
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andyman



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Location: Penrith

PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only problem with L300s is that ladies never lift the seat! Very Happy
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PinkPig
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 15:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

Test drive totalled 452 miles without issue (other than the radio playing up)  Very Happy
I'll get some pix of the interior build up soon when I've finished bodging  Wink
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The PINK PIG!
1988 Delica L300 Star Wagon 2.5TD 5sp Manual.
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/__PinkPig___/

A never ending camper/restoration project
Project 1 - Pop-top camper conversion 2011-2015
Project 2 - Campervan the sequel - 2016 restoration, welding, respray, new interior, vertical pop...
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