Mitsubishi Delica Owners Club UK™

baumdude · Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 19:24 Post subject: Desperate problem with my nuts!

Wheel nuts that is!!

The mot man wasn't happy with the fact that my weller 8 spokes stuck out of the side of my L300 by about 3". Looked cool but caused problems and he didin't have my enthusiasm for the cool look!

So i bought some cheap alloys from flea bus to put my 30/10.5 tyres on to adjust the offset in.

All good and well, but the wheel nuts are wrong for the new alloys. The old ones are chamfered types that where original to the van with the standard alloys (10 holed 15/6)

But my tyre man says the nuts won't work with the new wheels as the nuts need to cenrtalise the wheels and have a flat contact as oppose to the chamfer.

The wheels i have got are shogun 15/7 that look like six spoke type things with alloy and black inners that are the same as gavintwoppies on the wheel choices in Delica mods section. I would put a picture on but i'm not that great at it.

Does anyone know what type i need or where i could get them from? Does anyone have any kicking around they could sell me or can i get them from Milner offroad?

Any part no's.?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. One thing after another i seem to get myself in to Rolling Eyes

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Lewis · Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 19:40 Post subject:

Probably:-

Wheel Nut - Protruding

Try:- http://www.speedshack.co.uk/Wheelnuts.htm

Or:- Milners OffRoad Part No 005263 £1.50 each. :?

HTH
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chiefie · Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 19:42 Post subject:

you can get them from milner off road, i don't have a part number but i'm sure if you ask for wheel nuts with the washer on them, they'll know what your on about Wink

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baumdude · Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 20:23 Post subject:

Super quick guys, thanks very much. Thought that Milners would do them but you know what its like when you try and describe something over the phone to a parts guy! They must get allsorts of odd descriptions, poor bleeders, so i thought I'd try here first.

Thanks again :D
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Foxy · Joined: 18 Nov 2006 Posts: 474 Location: Rugby

joned · Joined: 25 Sep 2005 Posts: 119 Location: UK

Alternatively take it back to the Mot station and ask him where in the manual he can fail it on the wheels/tyres protruding from the bodywork?

This is a constructions and use issue and nothing to do with the MOT!

The computer system now used by Vosa (MOT) guides you to the correct answers when testing, having fixed topics and only so many options it is dificult to fail things for the wrong reasons.

Unfortunately many Testers test by what they think is right and not by the book.
If your brakes and lights work, emissions within spec then it is quite easy to pass a test if tested properly.

Jon
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Lewis · Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 22:16 Post subject:

I have previously requested some info from the DVLA about consistency between testing stations.

The reply I received was to the effect that the testers do not work for the DVLA and therefore they rely on the competence of the testers who have proved they are competent to do the job.

They consider the Testers to be the professionals and where the tester feels a particular item is a problem or not to serious a defect then they should use their own judgement.

If the tester felt that wheel nuts protruding out 3" from the side of a vehicle could injure a pedestrian that got to close to the side of the vehicle, or another vehicle. then he could fail it. Bare in mind that having loose chrome or rusted bodywork sticking out from the wheel arches is an automatic fail. Which I new well having for many years kept a right old banger of a camper van going for longer than was practical.

I would assume that if you had some extension wheel arches fitted, which projected out further than the wheel nuts, then the tester may pass the vehicle as safe.
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joned · Joined: 25 Sep 2005 Posts: 119 Location: UK

The original problem is about the wheels protruding!

Not the wheel nuts!!

The wheel nut issue is about fitting the other wheels to get through a test it shouldn't have failed for.

He shouldn't be spending money to get through an Mot because of an inadequate tester.

Testing is always going to be down to the testers discretion to some degree, but they should always go by the book. Anything they are unsure of they SHOULD look up in the book and if it isn't in the book they cannot fail it.
After all this if they are still unsure there is a helpline number with Ministry people to advvise you on any matter you are unsure of.

Wheels protruding isn't a discretional item it is NOT a fail.

Jon
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Lewis · Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 20:40 Post subject:

Correct but not correct!

Correct the issue was about the nuts being required for the new wheels, I got across on that one. Embarassed

It may not be a failure, Technically, to have wheels sticking out further than the arches, but it is illegal. If you drove out of the testing station and a copper stopped you, you would be done there and then with the vehicle removed to a police pound as it could not be legally driven on the road, not even back into the testing station. You would end up with a fine and possibly points on your licence.

You do have the right to appeal to VOSA and get an MOT pass, but is it worth it?

I used to be a nurse and have seen the result of protruding tyres on a mud plugging landrover catching the dress of a young girl on her way home from school whilst waiting to cross a road. The Landy was close to the kerb and the draught made her school dress billow out. The tyre caught and pulled the dress around it, followed by the girl! Evil or Very Mad

If you try to imagine a child of your own being forcibly rammed around your rear wheel arch you will get the idea of what she looked like. She was in hospital for over a year with many operations to rebuild her face, mend her broken arm and replace her skin, followed by many years of follow up treatment.

Personally I agree with the tester, who probably felt the vehicle was not safe to be on the road!

No doubt at some point the MOT test will include such a wheel as a fail.
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joned · Joined: 25 Sep 2005 Posts: 119 Location: UK

Quote
"Correct but not correct! "

No just correct.

I have been trying to explain here where the Mot test stands on wheels protruding i.e. It doesn't cover it!

I also stated in the second section of my first post on this subject that it is a constructions and use issue not Mot, meaning for that reason it would be a legal issue on the road.

If you don't agree with having the wheels protruding that is your opinion and you are welcome to it, but why bring some sob story about an injured child into it to try distract the point away from the subject.
If your story happened as you described then the child and the Landrover must have been very close together indeed, which to me would sugest either the child or the vehicle were in the wrong place.

There are many prolific posters and members on here who have wide and large (some very much so) wheels and tyres on lifted vehicles that with the height diferential between the body and the tyres would fit right into your dangerous category. Do you spend time taking apart their posts and advice to our have you for some un known reason just taken a dislike to my post?

Thank you for reminding me why I stopped coming on this site.

Jon
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Lewis · Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 22:04 Post subject:

Lewis · Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 22:17 Post subject:

baumdude: My apologies to you if I said anything you didn't want to hear! Embarassed

:?
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strangerover · Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 22:31 Post subject:

Jon....

I think you have maybe taken some well meant opinion a wee bit out of context...

I think Lewis was making the point that regardless of wether the MOT covers sticking out wheels the Law does, and has explained a possible consequence of not having wheels protected.

Your right in so far as the wheels sticking out do not come under the MOT

found this on a web site.......

"Tyres and roadwheels
Test Description

Tyre condition

The reason for failure with respect to tyre wear is:

"The grooves of the tread pattern are not at least 1.6mm throughout a continuous band comprising: the central three-quarters of the breadth of tread around the entire outer circumference of the tyre".

Tyres must be correctly matched with regard to:

type
size
structure

NB. type or structure but not both.

tyres on the same axle must be of the same structure and size.
Also examined:

general condition of tyre
condition of valve.
Tyres fail if they have serious cuts, bulges or other damage.

The wear on the tyre is checked with a tyre tread depth gauge to ensure compliance.

The tyres are examined to ensure that there is no fouling with any part of the vehicle.

Notes: Although under-inflation is not in itself a reason for failure, a brake test may be inadvisable because of possible damage, and it may affect headlamp alignment. The condition of the spare tyre is not part of the MOT.

Wheel condition

damage
distortion
cracks
distorted bead rim
securely attached to the vehicle
no wheel nuts or studs missing.
An externally fitted spare wheel or spare wheel carrier must not be so insecure that it is likely to fall off."

Legaly the tyre tread must be covered by the mud gaurds or wheel arches, my wheels are border line as the wheel wall protrudes but the tread is actualy covered...

as in...

Any MOT tester doing an honest job should probably not have failed the MOT... BUT have advised you that the wheels were illegal

BUT again.... there are rules that say there must be no dangerous projections from the body work, my expectation would be that he would cover his ass by saying the none standard wheels are a protrusion, and if you appealed I think you would find that that is what would be line taken.

I'd also like to suggest that you meet in person some of the people on here, when I first joined a few of the things posted had me thinking thoughts about what sort of place this was, but I have found the site very helpfull and well worth coughing up to support.....
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Foxy · Joined: 18 Nov 2006 Posts: 474 Location: Rugby

Foxy · Joined: 18 Nov 2006 Posts: 474 Location: Rugby

All Lewis did was write facts to help someone. He has done SO Much on this site to help Anyone who needs guidance or advice. It makes me very cross to see Anyone have a go at him! That's NOT what this site is about (to me anyway!).

------------------------------------

Back to wheel NUTs. Hope you get it all sorted happily mate, asap :D

scattman · Guest

Mmmmm---now this is were forums can go wrong,it is sometimes hard to put things accross on screen without people reading other things into it (face to face conversation it isn't) Rolling Eyes

The original post was kind of split "nuts and tyre pertrusion"--Lewis, as always answered in a method we all take to be his style now (correctly and with PIC'S) 8)

joned--Answered (knowing nuts had been covered),stating that it shouldn't have been a test fail (correct at this time as far as a mot is concerned)---i think he then felt that he was being told he was wrong,and that the reasons for this were purely someones "thoughts" on the subject --------the guy with the mot fail was put to expense when it wasn't needed,ADVICE should have been given, not a fail sheet Wink

(he liked his wheels so arches fitted would have been on the cards where as now he has another skinny set of wheels Twisted Evil

)

joned --stay in mate,i'm sure this was just one of those forum missunderstanding sort of things Wink

Lewis --keep up the good work mate

scattman · Guest

Marcus Bloke · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 19:30 Post subject:

Just a quick word on this subject.

I've known Jon for a couple of years and he is one of the nicest Family men I've every met, who also is a fully trained
and amazingly good mechanic, working in a garage.... and he REALLY knows his stuff.

He also works with children and has a couple of kids himself, so he's not a S0D them i'm alright Jack type of guy.

I know it got to be terrible to see a little girls injurys after something like that, but we all drive motors that aren't particually
pedestrian friendly, if the guy in the landy was SO close to drag her into his wheels, he was probly close enough to crack her
across the head with his wing mirror, catch her dress with the bull bar to same effect or even a door handle can catch someone
and pull them under the rear wheels ( I lost an uncle 40 years ago, who died that way )

Jon was stating the letter of the law or MOT whether leaving your wheels hanging out that much is a good idea, well you can only
make your own mind up on that, oh and PLOD !

Would having a set of extended arches have any effect on the out come, I can't see how but they would have made the Landy
totally legal.

My standard wing mirrors and METAL support bars stick out 7 1/2 " they would hit you long before the wheels were an issue.

The end of the day it wasn't the wheels that were responsible for the girls horrible accident, just a prat driving stupidly close
to her.

So how about cutting Jon some slack Sad

Mark.
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mythatsabigun · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 19:55 Post subject:

My, OP...who'd athought your desperate problem with your nuts would lead to such a thing?? Wink

P.S. - I just LOVE everyone.... Twisted Evil

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Marcus Bloke · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 19:56 Post subject:

Oooo you tart ! Laughing

Mark.
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