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gatesgarth pass, lake district


 
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chiefie



Joined: 25 May 2004
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Location: fleetwood lancashire

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 16:55    Post subject: gatesgarth pass, lake district Reply with quote

paul de borde,GLASS lancs and cumbria area rep wrote:

First of all, a little background information: Gatescarth Pass is a high fell route in the east of the Lake District National Park. It runs from the northern end at Mardale Head at the head of Haweswater to the southern end at Sadgill in Longsleddale, just north of Kendal.

In order to traverse this route, skilled driving is required in appropriately equipped vehicles and is therefore only suitable for the most experienced drivers. It is paramount that a ‘Tread Lightly’ policy is adhered to in order to minimise the impact of vehicles on this fragile route. It is NOT a route for the novice or less experienced driver. If something goes wrong on this route, it will go wrong in a big way and it would be extremely difficult to recover any vehicle or its occupants if a vehicle went ‘over the edge’.

Anyone who has been lucky enough to have driven this route will know just how steep it is and how tight the numerous hairpin bends are and just how fragile and remote the terrain is.

For a number of years now, following major repair work, there has been a Traffic Regulation Order (TRO) in force to control the use of motor vehicles on this route. This TRO allows permit holders to use the route. The route is open to vehicles with permits on one day per month with a maximum of 18 motor cycles in groups of no more than six and 12 4x4’s in groups of no more than four per permit day. The permits issued are only valid for one day. 4x4’s are not permitted during the months of December to March due to the weather conditions on the fell.

This permit system is under constant review and it has been noted that the longer wheelbase vehicles have been struggling on this route without causing damage to the surface. This is mainly due to the fact that some of the bends are simply physically too tight and too steep (with a steep camber) for LWB vehicles to negotiate or that the vehicles are too long for the bends if you want to put it another way. (Remember that this route was originally designed for horse & cart).

I, as a GLASS rep and 4x4 user, have been invited by the National Park to join the Gatescarth Pass Working Group to give advice on how to proceed with a review of the permit system with regards to 4x4 wheelbase limits and a re-write of the guidelines issued to permit holders.

After a meeting with representatives of the National Park and other members of the Gatescarth Pass Working Group on 17th January 2007 the following changes will be implemented and will come into force on 1st April 2007 (the first month that 4x4’s will be allowed back on the Pass after the winter):
• A maximum wheelbase limit of 100 inch will be implemented under the terms of the TRO.
• It will be the responsibility of the permit holders to ensure and prove that their vehicles comply with this limit and that their vehicles are suitable for the conditions to be encountered on the route.
• The latest start time for 4x4’s will be changed from 4pm to 1pm.
• New Guidelines will be drawn up emphasising that this route is only suitable for the most experienced drivers.
• The Guidelines will also comment on the type of vehicles suitable with regard to transmission types (two speed transfer box etc), recovery points, tyre choice and the use of ‘Axle Difflocks’.

Info can be found about Gatescarth Pass permits on the LDNPA website at: http://www.lake-district.gov.uk/index/enjoying/outdoors/green_roads/green_road_gatescarth.htm and this will be updated when the new details are finalised.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 16:55    Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join!


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strangerover
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 23:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting...

what is the Delica wheel base ? I'm sure its more than 100"

100" is a Discovery or a Range Rover
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chiefie



Joined: 25 May 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 22:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

not sure off hand, but the 300 will still be short enough 8)
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chiefie



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 22:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

2,800mm wheelbase on a swb, 3000mm on the lwb (taken from the workshop manual)
not sure what that is in inches Wink
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strangerover
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 23:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

whats the L300 wheel base then?

the L400 when converted to old money is indeed 110 inches for the SWB !
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chiefie



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 17:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

2,240mm, but there are variations. 2,235, 2,240, 2,435 and 2,440mm so best bet is to get the tape measure out Wink
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jamarie



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 22:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

between 7ft 5" and 8ft roughly speaking
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ausdean



Joined: 09 Feb 2009
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Location: Lake District

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 0:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey I know this is an old topic but I'm a new member!

this is in my neck of the woods and I have driven it twice some time ago. when it was legal officer!

I did it in a suzuki sj413. std accept for 215 15 bronco diamond backs. there were 4 of us in there too!

now, it is passable. and its a challange. basically there are MANY switch backs and more than 90 degrees. some close to 180 degrees! ground clearance is not a problem here. my suzi even had sagging std shocks and the weight of 4 adults. the problem is wheelbase and turning circle.

this is sumountable but challanging. on the inside of every bend are rocks high enough that if you got a wheel or body on them you would tip. on the outside of the bends the erosion from years of horses, walkers and us fossil fuel burners is such that there are very high embankments which stop you doing a 3 point turn.

this would not be a problem except for the fact that every left hand turn (there are many) is on the edge of an eroding ravine with a very nasty drop. at least 5m maybe more. I haven't been for some time. the right hand bends are not any easier except in your head as there is no instant death waiting for you... you could easily tip and it is still a steep hill down but I think you would survive with a gentle roll down the hill.

now I am not a professional off roader. I've done a bit on my own here in the uk and a bit overseas. I know my limits and I will not be taking my brand spanking new pride and joy over gatescarth EVER.

the main probs I see are the overhang at the front and rear preventing you getting a tight 30 point turn, the suzi's wheels were climbing those walls a bit to make it. also the higher centre of gravity and a less flexible chassis could cause a concern.

the pros would be the power of a turbo diesel on the aproach and the safety of a roof over your head compared to the suzi. the first time I tried I had A/Ts and lost traction heading up the hill in 4WD low. reversing downhill around a corner whilst your wheels are spinning in the opposite direction with a drop and river below the apex of the turn is not fun. I know you are supposed to turn into the slide and gun it but there is no space.

if two of you went, maybe you could attach a winch to the side of vehicle on the left hand bend whilst the other Deli is backed off on a safer bit of track. that's too high tech for me though.

I'm not saying its not possible. give me your L300 with high profile M/Ts, front and rear locking diffs, preferably no lift or towbar or bull bar and I will have a crack at it.

if you are going to try it. it may end up in tears. it would be very very difficult to recover a vehicle from there. it would also be difficult to recover a person from there.

promise me to walk the path first, have good chunky mud terrains and don't have your kids in the car.

there are a lot more challanging, fun, rock crawling and scenic drives here in the lake district which don't have the danger element. think hard on this one.

if you get a bunch up here and we get passes, I will happily take you over it in the suzi.

safe driving guys and girls, dean

p.s. won't someone answer my post about an l200 locking diff!
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Lewis
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pass!  :?


Click here to see photo's of the pass
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ausdean



Joined: 09 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey those photos make it look easy!! I think they forgot to take photos when they were doing the tricky bits. if you are thinking of doing it let me know. I will bring the suzi.  :D
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Lewis
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

ausdean wrote:
hey those photos make it look easy!! I think they forgot to take photos when they were doing the tricky bits. if you are thinking of doing it let me know. I will bring the suzi.  :D


Lewis wrote:
Pass!  :?
Not on your Deli!  Laughing I tramped up that many (many) years ago on an army training exercise, never again!  Evil or Very Mad
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ausdean



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

ha ha! don't envy you!

do you think its possible in a modded Delica? do you think some one in the uk is capable of doing it in a Delica... this is not a challange by the way. I just don't know how capable they are yet...

do you guys ever get up this way for greenlaning?

norm, who I bought the Deli of mentioned something about blackpool...
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Lewis
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

ausdean wrote:
ha ha! don't envy you!

do you think its possible in a modded Delica? do you think some one in the uk is capable of doing it in a Delica... this is not a challange by the way. I just don't know how capable they are yet...

do you guys ever get up this way for greenlaning?

norm, who I bought the Deli of mentioned something about blackpool...


As the pass is now restricted to vehicles of less than 100" wheelbase then the L400 is out as the SWB is 110.25". The L300 is okay for wheelbase length, but as for who would want to try it then I don't know!

As for the L300 capabilities see:-


Link

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ausdean



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 23:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

they seem to be quite capable! I want to go find a river now!
I think they are only hanicapped by their front and rear overhangs.
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chiefie



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 17:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have done it in my L300, a few years ago, only damage was a scratch to the corner of my bull bar, this was on road bias AT's with no lift or locking diffs. and 4 people in it.
it is really not for the inexperienced driver tho'
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ausdean



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 0:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

I take my hat off to you chiefie. I bet your passengers were crapping themselves!!
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chiefie



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

TBH.......we all were to a degree, even those not in the Deli  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing

good fun though and stunning views  Wink
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