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Groaning / grinding transfer box?


 
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GlosMatatu



Joined: 18 Jun 2019
Posts: 8
Location: Stroud

PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 17:28    Post subject: Groaning / grinding transfer box? Reply with quote

Good afternoon all.  I am after some advice on what I think is a transfer box problem, but I'll take any suggestions.  First post here and I have looked at all the other threads and can't find any that cover this.

I imported my Delica from Japan about three years ago now.  I was overseas for almost 12 months of that so never got to the bottom of all of the expected niggles of a second hand vehicle…  All is now sorted with the exception of a strange noise that neither I nor my local mechanic (who I have used for years and is highly competent) can get to the bottom of. As follows:

- Model:  2005 PD6W Delica Space Gear.  eight seat.  High roof.  Petrol 3.0L.  Automatic.
- On receipt and completion of MoT there were a number of minor ‘clunks’ in the suspension train.  I have replaced bushes where appropriate and those noises have largely disappeared.
- From very early in my ownership there has been a strange noise emanating from the rear end of the vehicle.  Despite many attempts to isolate and address the problem it seems to be becoming more frequent and more of an issue:
-- Never seems to manifest itself on short journeys or under light loads.
-- Hard to describe, but starts as a faint rattle and builds to a sort of moaning / groaning noise.  Sounds like a  major issue once it is up to full volume.  Will reduce when you take your foot off the power, but immediately resumes when under load again.
-- Rarely noticeable when not under considerable load.  Only becomes an issue when accelerating at speed, driving up long hills, carrying heavy loads or towing.
-- Does not appear to be related to the level of compression of the suspension (ie will happen when unladen on a long hill as often as when towing a heavy load).
- I have replaced / added:
-- Rear bushes and anti-roll bar.  The roll-bar bushes were quite well worn and certainly made it sound worse.  There is a damping weight attached to the drive shaft mounting (OEM) which made me wonder whether this is a known problem.
-- Rear springs (from MitzyBitz – sorry, I know you don’t like them).  Made no appreciable difference to the noise (but much better ride height).
-- 50mm lift kit.  Made no appreciable difference to the noise (but much better ride height).
- I have checked:
-- Wheel bearings – all okay;
-- Brakes – all okay;
-- Differential play – minimal and less than I would expect.  Slight whining from the rear diff.  Had the diff removed and refurbed - now silent (for a Delica);
-- Prop shaft / universal joint play (removed the prop shaft) – pretty much no play at all.
-- Exhaust rattle – have managed to find no loose parts at all.
-- Automatic transmission – no issue with the levels or viscosity of the fluid.  I have had it checked and serviced by an automatic transmission specialist.  Changes gear smoothly and when you would expect.
-- Operates in all levels of 4WD / low ratio / diff lock without issues, although it can be hard to get out of 4WD / diffs locked without lots of back and forward.  Only anomaly is that the two lights on the dashboard indicating the rear wheels are almost never on – they came on briefly the other day then went off again.

I need to be able to rely on this vehicle for long journeys (I frequently drive to the W Coast of Scotland and carry / tow medium to heavy loads).  I love the Delica, but it is getting to the stage when I cannot rely on it and am running out of ideas for getting to the bottom of this.  Any ideas that you may have would be hugely appreciated.  I am not a mechanic but can fix most minor tasks myself; this issue has stumped both me and my local mechanic as well as extensive Google searching.
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andyman



Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 5601
Location: Penrith

PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 0:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi GlosMatatu. How very annoying! I don't know L400s, but it sounds as though this noise is torque related, - related to the tendency for the engine and gearbox to be rotated in the opposite direction to the prop shaft especially when under load, eg accellerating up hill. Deterioration of engine and gearbox  bearers can exaggerate this tendency. Even without this exaggeration, the torque effect can cause (typically) the exhaust to touch and vibrate against heat shields, bodywork, or even the back axle, when it would normally be clear of them on some vehicles.  Similarly it can cause misalignment and vibration in the transmission line - that is apparently what the big block of metal under the gearbox is meant to eradicate. Just a thought.
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GlosMatatu



Joined: 18 Jun 2019
Posts: 8
Location: Stroud

PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 15:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks.  I am pretty sure that it is not rattle / play / vibration in the shafts and the gearbox appears so smooth that I have ruled that out for now (perhaps incorrectly).  I am pretty confident that the issue is in the transfer box.

Three specific questions:

- Is it reasonably easy to replace the transfer box?  I am assuming much easier than the entire gearbox?
- Any advice on where to get one from.  Given that I have a 3L V6 and most UK-available gearboxes appear to be for the 2.8L diesel, are they interchangeable?  It would be much easier for me to get one off a diesel, but I want to avoid compatibility issues.
- Failing that - any recommendations for someone who could refurb?  I am Gloucestershire-based.

Confused
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andyman



Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 5601
Location: Penrith

PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 19:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read my previous post again - not suggesting any play within the transmission, just torque movement of the whole engine transmission. My L300 auto diesel used to get a vibration when I accelerated hard up hill with all of its 87bhp! On examining the bearers, the round gearbox mounts were were perished and cracked. I filled them with black rubber (NOT silicone) gutter mastic which took a couple of days to dry. But it solved the vibration. The transfer box can be removed from the back of the gearbox - they don't share fluids, but you'll lose most of the transfer gear oil when you pull out the front and rear prop shafts if you don't drain first.
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GlosMatatu



Joined: 18 Jun 2019
Posts: 8
Location: Stroud

PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 23:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Andy. I’ll have another look at the engine and gearbox mounts.
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GlosMatatu



Joined: 18 Jun 2019
Posts: 8
Location: Stroud

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2022 19:46    Post subject: Is the transfer box compatible between 2.8D and 3.0V6 petrol Reply with quote

Hi all.

I still think that my issue is with the transfer box. I want to replace it with a working one to see whether that resolves the issue. My problem is that auto boxes with transfer boxes for a 2.8 diesel are easy to find in the UK (mainly but not exclusively Mitzy Bitz), but ones for a 3.0 V6 petrol are like rocking horse sh*t).

I have done some research on Mitsubishi.epc-data and it seems that the transfer box may be identical to the PD8W et al (same spec, but 2.8 diesel). The PNC and Spec are identical, but the OEM number differs by one digit. I am aware this could be critical (a gear ratio, for example) or minor internal difference. They certainly look the same.

Critical questions that I would be delighted with an authoritative answer are:
- are they interchangeable?
- is the gear ratio the same?  
- if not, does anyone know where I can get a transfer box for a PD6W anywhere in the UK?

Clearly the gearbox ratio will be different to suit the different engines, but intuitively it strikes me that the transferbox could be identical, and perhaps with the Pajero / Shogun as well. It would make sense for the manufacturer to maximise compatibility.

Details as below:
My vehicle:
VIN PD6W-1004093
Spec: HSEUE3 Active Field Edition (HI-RF/8ST)

* Engine
   * 3.0L V6
   * PNC: 01000A
   * OEM: 1000A263
   * Spec: 6G72-8-KB
* Gearbox
   * PNC: 26040A
   * OEM: MR593854
   * Spec: V4A51-2-DJB2
* Transfer box.
   * PNC: 30010A
   * OEM: MR553967
   * Spec: V4A51

The equivalent diesel:
PD8W
* Engine: 4M40 - 2.8 TD
* Gearbox:
   * PNC: 26040A
   * OEM: MR593856
   * Spec: V4A51-2-PIB2
* Transfer box.
   * PNC: 30010A
   * OEM: MR553968
   * Spec: V4A51

Technical advice / guidance gratefully received. I have searched this forum and the wider web and can't find the transfer box ratios anywhere.
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Uncle Nick



Joined: 05 Feb 2022
Posts: 106
Location: Durham

PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 20:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, I’m totally new to Delica ownership so can’t comment on your specific issue but used to have a Freelander where vibration only occurred in similar specific conditions.
We only got to solve it by putting up on the ramp, fully warmed up etc, with all four wheels able to spin. We then simulated the conditions that caused the issue. Eventually, after a few ‘miles’ at 70/80mph found the issue.
Thank god it didn’t come off the ramp or it would have flown through the wall!
Might be worth a try, good luck! 👍
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GlosMatatu



Joined: 18 Jun 2019
Posts: 8
Location: Stroud

PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 23:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. Out of interest, what was the issue?
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Uncle Nick



Joined: 05 Feb 2022
Posts: 106
Location: Durham

PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 23:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

An engine mounting that seemed okay when at tickover wasn’t at higher revs.
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