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Core/Freeze plugs replacement?


 
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Mancdelica



Joined: 17 Nov 2020
Posts: 7
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 0:17    Post subject: Core/Freeze plugs replacement? Reply with quote

Hello there,

I'm currently trying to do up my recent purchase. (L300 2.5TD) Whilst installing a new water pump and thermo bypass pipe I've noticed some core/freeze plugs have residue on them and probably leaking.

I was made aware of one that has been replaced when buying it from previous owner, and one that he knew definitely needed doing also.

Since working on it I've noticed probably 3/4 that need doing. In an ideal world id do all of them obviously.

Due to to me not having a garage, or winch etc engine removal myself isn't really an option (if I can help it). I was wondering if anyone has had any experience of doing any with the engine in place? I know one previously has been done this way. It looks like I'd get at most by removing the exhaust manifold and throttle body/carb etc.

Has anyone had this sort of work done/done it themselves? I have no money and I can imagine paying someone to do it isn't exactly cheap ha! †Shocked

My big fear is a spend ages doing the van up and then it just pisses out coolant and overheats on my first proper run out.

Thanks in advance

Matt
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andyman



Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 4783
Location: Penrith, Cumbria

PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 21:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Matt. I've been looking at diagrams (not brilliant) in my Pajero manual, - they used the same engine. It appears there may be five on the nearside/fuel pump side and three on the other (manifolds) side? Either way, access from the engine bay looks tricky, from the underside or even through the wheel arches may be easier. Either way, removal of manifolds on one side, and injector pump on the other side, may be necessary for access to one or two. Yes, you want it right, but if it aint broke, don't fix it also holds good in this case. In other words, only replace those that really need replacing. If some are popping out, if they don't look badly corroded, try knocking them back into place if you can't get hold of them to pull out without destroying them. The hitting of them may show you how sound they are(nt)! I think the last car I had to knock one back in on was a Morris Minor, or Triumph Herald, where you could stand in the engine bay either side of the engine, so plenty of room for a hammer and flat plate, or short length of hardwood broom handle. Happy New Year!
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Mancdelica



Joined: 17 Nov 2020
Posts: 7
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 0:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there,

Happy new year to you too and sorry for the late reply. I was actually ill with this virus all xmas.

Thanks for the response. Yes I believe its the same 4D56 engine. Yeh that's what I can see and they are accessible if I move those things you mentioned out of the way. so them 'popping out' is my confusion. I've done some research and I know the design of them is too 'pop out' if the block freezes. However from what I've seen on my van and many other cars on forums etc they just tend to fail. Usually rust form the inside and therefore make a pin hole and leak. Mine is just that. Most of them are just leaking and haven't moved from the factory position as far as I can tell. They just have a white residue on them and are wet.

If its a case of just topping up my coolant every few hundred miles I can live with that for a while, and ill leave the job alone as it looks like absolute ball ache to be quite honest and not something I want to do unless absolutely need too, like you suggested.  

So I don't think I can or need to pop any in but do you think its bad to leave leaking ones? Thats my main concern. I've got no experience of how quickly they can leak further/and or just pop out one day if they are already damaged? They may be tiny leaks I'm not sure as I've just bought it and on my first 20 min run, the van overheated, so I'm trying to sort the rad, new water pump, thermo etc first. I was just thinking to maybe do some plugs whilst I'm in there sorting the rest of the coolant system.

I might take it out a few times when the coolant system is fixed and see how they go.... could just start taking coolant like it takes diesel??  Shocked

Matt
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andyman



Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 4783
Location: Penrith, Cumbria

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 19:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tempted to suggest a temporary fix which should reduce leakage and further deterioration to a minimum.
1) Drain down the system
2) clean up the core plugs and the holes they fit into so no loose, flaky rust; then dry thoroughly with a hair dryer or fan heater.
3) Fill with Plastic Padding type Metal (or similar) and leave to set thoroughly. In this weather, use hairdryer or fan heater to help setting.
4)When fully set, re-fill system with 50/50 mix of suitable green or blue silica based coolant, NOT OAT (usually pink/red). It slowly eats away at solder and other soft, reactive metals.

I use Comma Xstream G48 - readily available and fairly inexpensive. Open both heater valves fully (sliders to red) to bleed the system through, while running at fast idle 900-1000 rpm (using the "choke" knob to the left of the steering column), and check †for leaks as it warms up.

I once repaired a motorcycle (CZ 175) primary drive case with the Plastic Padding type Metal, after the primary chain had snapped and punched a huge hole in the casing, leaving †a huge oil slick on the road. Cleaned and repaired, it never lost a drop in another 6 months commuting, so it's good stuff!
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Mancdelica



Joined: 17 Nov 2020
Posts: 7
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 19:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Andy,

Thanks for that suggestion. Seems like a much easier/cheaper job to do than trying to tackle replacing the actual plugs. Its something I never really thought about. I take it that stuff can handle high temperatures of engine blocks? Much appreciated. I'm currently putting on a new water pump (when the weather gets above zero) and so I'm going to give it a good flush with an additive when its all back on and hose the rad first etc. Then I will be eagle eyed checking my coolant levels and for leaks.

Would you say just add a small amount and not fill the plug incase I do actually need to remove them one day. I don't want to make them so they are irremovable.  

Also with the choke. I'm a bit naive to them as I've never owned a vehicle with one. I know they are for helping with cold starts but do you just have it 'open' (pulled towards me) for the first minute or something for cold starts? and can be just be used to increase the idle speed for tests like this? when and how should you use them basically. Also should I be turning the ignition part way and allowing for some 'clicks' before turning the full way. I remember reading something about it and the glow plugs but as you can tell I'm a bit of a newbie to old Diesel engines.

Thanks again

Matt
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andyman



Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 4783
Location: Penrith, Cumbria

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't be too worried about putting a good thickness in the core plugs, it will drill or chisel out easy enough.

The "choke" isn't really a choke, it just looks like the old choke knob on a classic petrol engined car.
It is actually a manual throttle, so you can set it to a fast idle by pressing the pedal to the revs you want, and pull out the knob until it holds the pedal at that setting,
then twist the knob to lock it. Very useful for warming the engine quickly, defrosting etc, charging your batteries, or while jump-starting another vehicle.
It also stops mine vibrating when cold, as its idle starts at around 600rpm and rises to around 750, and smooth, when warm.
Set it to 750 cold, and in a few minutes it will be idling at around 950. Just don't forget to release it before you drive off, or it will jump forward as soon as you engage Drive! (assuming it's an auto).

Starting: Turn the key so all the lights come up on the dash (pre-heat). As you do so, you'll hear the pre-heat/ glow-plugs relay click.
five seconds or so later, you should hear another click, indicating the plugs are hot enough. Turn the key further to turn the starter.
Even in this weather, it should start instantly, even if it splutters a little before settling to an even tickover. You only need your foot touching the throttle pedal.
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Mancdelica



Joined: 17 Nov 2020
Posts: 7
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 23:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome Thanks. Ill let you know how I get on with that.

Arghh well thats very handy to know. And quite a cool feature all be it a slightly random one. Good for these cold mornings right now.

Thanks for explaining the clicks also. I had a few times where it wasn't starting first time and I think this was my issue.

Just as were on the subject of the cooling system.... kind of  Wink  Do you know any good aftermarket rads. I've seen some 45mm core aluminium ones from Taiwan on Facebook which look well made. The guys on the Canada Delica forum have some really positive threads about them. Right now there is no shipping here and even when there is they're quite pricey to ship ($300 + roughly $200 to ship) Just wondering if anyone knows anyone local. From what I gather cooling is a big issue with L300? and mine overheated on my first outing. I'm not saying its 100% the rad, but wouldn't mind replacing it in the near future and it is quite battered...

Sorry if there is already a thread about rads.

Matt
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andyman



Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 4783
Location: Penrith, Cumbria

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 14:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

The original rads are good old-fashioned soldered brass and copper construction, and are repairable, as long as the zig-zag fins have not rotted away.

If yours is an auto, it has a cooling/ heating circuit at the bottom†for the transmission fluid. You can get excellent all-aluminium radiators from Tigweld4U †made in Widnes, so not far from you! https://m.facebook.com/tigweld4ultd/. But it's an easy enough removal, so I would take it out and give it a good flushing with a hose pipe, you'll be amazed at the crud that comes out, and do the same for the engine, with the thermostat removed from its housing.

To check your rad is properly clean (make sure you have blown all the dead insects etc out of the fins) run water from the hot tap through it; - even when the hose has been running for a while, the water coming out the other end should be relatively cool.

Has yours still got the plastic fan cowl on the rad? Once you have removed the screw and clip at the top centre, the two halves slide apart rotationally and off †their bayonet mouldings. good luck, you'll get there.

I'm servicing my steering at the moment, perished/split rack gaiters, the o/s ball joints seem to be remarkably good for a 30 year-old vehicle, so I may not need the replacements I've bought from Milner's at present. More difficult to get a replacement for, though, is the short horizontal steering shaft, whose non-serviceable U/J has noticeable play. Found one for around £90 in the Philipines. Ho Hum Rolling Eyes
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Mancdelica



Joined: 17 Nov 2020
Posts: 7
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 22:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeh my fins are pretty battered. Once whole corner has been hit clearly and they all bent and flat/missing etc. I know you can repair radiators but it looks so battered with the transmission pipes slightly crushed etc I just think new one is the way forward. Can't see a rad fix being all that cheap either?

Aye its an auto so I've got those two pipes. Sweet thats good I know. Iíll give him an email and check prices. Certainly a lot closer than Taiwan to here †Laughing

Yeh Iíve had it out a while now as I'm doing the water pump, bypass pipe and the belts as I put it back together. Rad has been flushed and I intend to do it again once back on the van with coolant flush additive. Yeh the fan cowl was there and a bit of a blow to remove.

Ha good luck with that. Seems like some things are fairly easy to get other parts are a nightmare.

Cheers for the info.
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