2Gether FS : 01945 585322

Mitsubishi Delica Owners Club UKô
Mitsubishi Delica L300, L400 and D:5 Owners Club
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   Watched TopicsWatched Topics   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your personal messagesLog in to check your personal messages   Log inLog in 
CalendarCalendar  dynamic online chat serviceChatrooms   Delica Club ShopClub Shop  MDOCUK Classified Ads serviceClassified Ads
MDOCUK home pageMDOCUK Home  Yellow Diamond ClubsYellow Diamond Clubs  Delica Club (CA)Delica Club (CA)  Delica Club (AUS)Delica Club (AUS)

Looking for a 12V live when engine is running

Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Mitsubishi Delica Owners Club UKô Forum Index -> Electrical issues
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
white elephant



Joined: 08 Aug 2018
Posts: 24
Location: Peebles, Scottish Borders

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah sorry reread what you said there, pretty much what that quora guy said. If this redlight wire has the same functionality as connecting to a D+ then that's the one I need. I'll give it a shot tomorrow. It's not the end of the world If I can't find a d+ alternative as the battery charger would still function as a battery charger for the leisure battery, I'd just lose out on the trickle charge feature.

80 quid sounds like a steal for a gel battery! I got a agm one and even though it's not even been used in anger the more I hear about batteries the more I'm thinking I should have gone gel...
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Google
Sponsor





PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:37    Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join!


Back to top
Fostlongstrider
Lifetime member
Lifetime member


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 2236
Location: Hedon, East Yorks

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

white elephant wrote:

3.After the first few revs of the engine, D+ take over the excitation/energization of the field coils we have a voltage coming for the alternator side from excitor diodes. This voltage drowns the weak earth through the field coil that was switching the battery light on. Battery light therefore switches of, an indication that the system is charging.



Just to nit pick, you don't have exciter diodes in the alternator as the field supply is already DC.
The diode pack rectifies the alternator output to DC.

My sensing relay is wired to the vehicle battery, so when not running and that battery is below 12.6 volts the relay is open and the leisure battery is not connected.
Engines starts and as soon as the voltage reaches 13.1 volts the relay closes and leisure and vehicle batteries are connected as I have previously said. As the relay doesn't open until the voltage of the combined batteries drops below 12.6 volts the system does what you are looking for and keeps the vehicle battery capable of starting the vehicle. So there is no complicated wiring.
I don't understand the need to trickle charge the vehicle battery from the leisure battery. It is not normally charged by anything if you don't have a leisure system like you detail and the battery normally retains enough power to start the vehicle.

Not saying you should not install this system if thats what you want, but seems to me an over complication of the issue.
_________________
Ian.

All the best from the East Riding of Yorkshire.

'93 L300 Super Exceed †Corse Gray over Grace Silver.Auto.

Flying Brick Supporter.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message Visit poster's website
white elephant



Joined: 08 Aug 2018
Posts: 24
Location: Peebles, Scottish Borders

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you not say yourself that you have a 25w solar panel just for topping up your starter battery? At the end of the day I already have the Battery to battery charger which has this extra feature, I'd like to use it if it's there even if it's just for piece of mind during the winter, It's just one extra wire it shouldn't be anymore complicated than wiring in a second solar panel.

On regular operation that's how this charger works too which is nice and simple, I've no idea why it needs the d+ method in order for the trickle charge to work. In the manual it states that the d+ connection is primarily for cars with euro 6 regenerative braking stuff because the voltage in these cars is not reliable enough for the normal method to work. I'll have a poke about and see if I can find something that works but yeah it's not the end of the world if there isn't anything.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Fostlongstrider
Lifetime member
Lifetime member


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 2236
Location: Hedon, East Yorks

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 20:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not saying don't use it.
Just strange for a vehicle which as you say is not Euro 6.
I don't use mine for days or even weeks at a time so that is why I have the 25W solar panel to keep the vehicle battery topped up.
Originally I had a 900W continuous Generator(2 stroke) followed by a 2Kw Generator(4 stroke) but they required carrying petrol and oil. Also there was the noise issue on site.
I find that gear that has too many features tends to go wrong more easily.

Hope you get your system to work to your satisfaction.
_________________
Ian.

All the best from the East Riding of Yorkshire.

'93 L300 Super Exceed †Corse Gray over Grace Silver.Auto.

Flying Brick Supporter.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message Visit poster's website
Deker
Lifetime member
Lifetime member


Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 3486
Location: Borehamwood Hertfordshire

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 21:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

white elephant wrote:

In the manual it states that the d+ connection is primarily for cars with euro 6 regenerative braking stuff

Please excuse me for saying this - I really feel that you are confused. Me too †Confused
Example above, you say †"when the alternator is raising the voltage to around 13 or 14 volts and begins charging the leisure battery from the starter battery".
The starter does not charge anything.

Regenerative Braking refers to Electric cars (there are other complicated mechanical systems, not applied to cars)
What you refer to above may mean large vehicles with mechanical re-gen.
Admittedly I am not up to speed with the latest stuff.

Ian has given you the best answer that you need. I believe Lewis and many other the same system.

If you want to "Charge" the 2nd battery, then why not charge the main battery †Question
Volts rise above 13.1 v, the relay closes - charges second battery.

Mr D
_________________
You can take me anywhere twice. - - - - - Once to apologise :-(

No trees were harmed in the sending of this message but millions of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
white elephant



Joined: 08 Aug 2018
Posts: 24
Location: Peebles, Scottish Borders

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 23:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to drag this up again but thought I'd post my findings now I've had everything up and running for a bit in case anyone comes here looking for the same thing. Just to clarify this is for anyone installing a votronic battery to battery charger or any other battery to battery charger that requires a feed from the d+ terminal of the alternator. You could also use this to trigger a relay that connects the starter and leisure batteries instead of a VSR although the VSR is probably the better option. In the wiring loom coming from the alternator there is a little white wire with silver pips that eventually leads up to the dash, it's in one of the plugs that is on the left hand side although I can't remember which one. If you test this wire with a voltmeter you should find that it will only ever show a voltage while the engine is actually running. For the votronic charger it was a simple case of joining a wire to this white wire and running it to the input of the charger labeled d+.

For anyone who has not come across these battery to battery chargers before here's a link, like I said they're more for modern vehicles but they have some other wee advantages over traditional voltage sensing relay systems that may be worth the extra money for some.    
https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/auxiliary-battery-charging-in-vehicles-with-smart-alternators.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
andyman



Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 4509
Location: Penrith, Cumbria

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2020 11:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the link, but from what I can see, that charger is specifically for smart alternators as fitted to modern cars with regenerative braking and ecu controlled alternator output, trying to screw the last gram of efficiency out of the fuel in order to achieve the lowest emissions, and able to cope with the hugely fluctuating demand and oversupply from electric powered vehicles (including hybrids) using regenerative braking. It will be interesting to see what efficiencies your system achieves over say Ian or Lewis's split charger system, seeing as you are all aiming to maintain full and healthy batteries all the time your vehicles are standing unused.
_________________
Andy C L300 Super Exceed - over 100 smiles per gallon!
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
white elephant



Joined: 08 Aug 2018
Posts: 24
Location: Peebles, Scottish Borders

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2020 14:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know this is from a website that sells these chargers so may be biased towards higher priced products but I'm certain they can be used with traditional alternators, I have had mine fitted for several months now and know other people who have them in their T4s. †

"Benefits of using a Battery-To-Battery charger for auxiliary battery charging

Battery-To-Battery chargers are becoming increasingly common in leisure, commercial and marine applications, not only as a way of over-coming the issues with smart alternator technology, but also because they provide several benefits over split charging systems when used with traditional alternators:
Batteries charge much faster when using a Battery-To-Battery charger when compared with direct alternator charging (as found in split charge systems using VSRs, HD relays or diode isolators). This can typically be around 5x faster.
A much deeper state of charge can be achieved because the Battery-To-Battery charger uses a multi-stage profile to maximise the depth of charge, something not possible in standard split-charge systems which will typically charge a battery to around 80% of its capacity.
Charging will always take place when the engine is running, regardless of the alternator output voltage, because low voltages are boosted to meet the required charging profile.
As in a split charge system, the starter and auxiliary batteries are electrically isolated when the engine is not running to ensure that one cannot discharge the other.
The charger protects auxiliary batteries from high voltage spikes produced as a result of regenerative braking systems, so preventing damage to sensitive Gel and AGM batteries.
The current reaching the auxiliary battery is determined by the charger rating (rather than by the maximum the alternator can produce), meaning that potentially damaging current in-rush is eliminated. This current in-rush can occur in split charge systems if the auxiliary battery is dead-flat or very low and can overload cables and blow fuses if they are not large enough to cope with the alternator output."

I doubt there will be much of an advantage in reality but they're definitely not specifically for smart alternators, you get some from redarc and ctec which can charge your leisure battery from solar and the alternator in one unit which might be of interest to some people as well. I bought mine on a bit of a whim after reading about leisure battery charging systems and have been fairly happy with it so far although I don't really have anything to compare against. It's an option anyway.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Fostlongstrider
Lifetime member
Lifetime member


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 2236
Location: Hedon, East Yorks

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 10:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

My system can handle 50 amps easily and the cables are 25mm with 100 amp short circuit fuses at each end of the cables.
It also has over/under voltage protection and reverse polarity protection.
My alternator is a 90 amp.
I try never to let my leisure battery go too low hence the 100 watt on site solar panel.
Heavy charging reduces the life of any battery.
The 25 watt solar panel keeps the start battery charged without any detriment to the leisure battery and is also used on site.

Each to his own of course but I have run this system for over two years without, touch wood, any problems.
_________________
Ian.

All the best from the East Riding of Yorkshire.

'93 L300 Super Exceed †Corse Gray over Grace Silver.Auto.

Flying Brick Supporter.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message Visit poster's website
Lewis
Site Admin


Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 15518
Location: Huddersfield

PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 10:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

My setup, if you wish to see it, is posted here:- http://www.MDOCUK.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=48297

I've just updated it with my solar panel info.
_________________


Copyright is retained for all my photos. Please don't copy them without asking permission
Do not blindly go where the path may lead you. Go where there is no path and leave a trail that others may follow!
ルイス
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Mitsubishi Delica Owners Club UKô Forum Index -> Electrical issues All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


All contents © Hobson's Choice IT Solutions Ltd 1997 on
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group