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Driving in 4LLc on tarmac?


 
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reliant-reviver



Joined: 10 May 2018
Posts: 12
Location: Beighton, Sheffield

PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 15:35    Post subject: Driving in 4LLc on tarmac? Reply with quote

Quick question, please don't shout at it me if the answer was lurking somewhere.

I'm tantalisingly close to buying my first Delica (L400 PD6W)

One little thing I should just check before I do. I have a requirement to drive, potentially tow, up the access road at my property. It is a fearsome strip of concrete, that climbs at about 30-40 degrees and takes you around a near 90 degree corner. My previous RWD transit would lose traction if unloaded and not going at it with momentum. My current FWD Mitsi Galant cannot gain enough traction to tow up it (<1 ton).

Will a Delica do the job, in 4H or better still 4LLc so that I can do it slow and steady if tugging a trailer. Or am I going to end up breaking things?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 15:35    Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join!


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Lewis
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Joined: 25 May 2006
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Location: Huddersfield

PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 17:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do not use difflock or low ratiogears on a solid surface, i.e.bitumen or concrete, otherwise you will stuff the diff.

See this post for how to use the Super Select gears:- http://www.MDOCUK.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18735
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reliant-reviver



Joined: 10 May 2018
Posts: 12
Location: Beighton, Sheffield

PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 21:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply. That post has been read and read again in anticipation of getting behind the wheel  of a Delica soon I hope!

Hopefully then 4H will cut it traction wise and the auto won't complain of I take it slow.

When the centre diff is "locked" is it mechanically so, or is the operation of the viscous unit changed to give the effect of distributing a fixed amount of torque front and rear? Just trying to get my head around how it works.
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Lewis
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 23:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

As per what it says in the Link, broken down into sections for you, with extra info, in red. Wink


    1. When in two wheel drive (2H) the bottom two lights only are on (Rear Wheels), push the floor transfer lever forward one position to use four wheel drive (4H) and all four lights should come on. Normal usage.

    2. The 4H position will use 2WD until the rear wheels lose surface traction, at which time the Viscous Coupling system will auto-engage the front differential to power the front wheels on a 50-50% basis (Series 2 models use 75-25% to keep more pushing power on the rear axle). When the rear wheels regain traction it reverts to normal 4H usage as above.

    3. Push the lever forward again to (4HLc) and the centre orange difflock light flashes, then remain fixed on when the difflock is engaged.  The dash will display the wording 'Wheel Lock' in green, to show the front freewheeling hubs are locked. The freewheeling hubs remain locked until manually reverted to 4H.

    4. If you then depress the lever and move it to the right, or left if you have a manual gear shift, into the low gears (4LLc) then all the lights are on in a fixed mode.


I've edited the other post to read as above, with the extra red info.  Smile
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Last edited by Lewis on Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:32; edited 1 time in total
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andyman



Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 5601
Location: Penrith

PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

This year, in wet conditions, I took my L300 auto over Hardknott Pass in the lake District. There is a steep section with tight hairpins at gradients up to 30% (1 in 3?). I wasn't towing, but to relieve the strain on my gearbox and torque converter, I engaged 4L for this section - around half a mile up to the summit, with no adverse effects. On the other hand, early last year, I made a trip to Tan Hill, the highest pub in England. On the way up, passing through mist/low cloud in 2H, I completely lost traction on an up gradient glazed with black ice, so had to engage 4H to make progress. 2 miles or so further on, the vehicle started to make strange groaning noises, with vibration, and felt like the brakes were binding. Momentarily taking my attention off the difficult (swirling mist) conditions outside, I realised I was still in 4WD, and the noise was due to "wind-up" in the transmission. The road was now just wet, but not icy, and the tarmac was a coarse, high-grip variety. I took it out of 4 WD, and carried on peacefully, until I again lost traction on the final rise up to the pub, and had to re-engage 4WD. I don't know how long your stretch of concrete is, but I doubt if you will do any harm with diff locked over that short distance, especially as  you say your transit struggles to grip. A normally weight distributed trailer, 60/40 on the flat, will probably reverse those loadings on such a steep incline, meaning it is actually lifting on your towbar. Any wind up over a short distance will be minimal, and under such conditions, would probably self-release excess wind up. Just don't forget to switch back to 2WD as soon as you can!
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reliant-reviver



Joined: 10 May 2018
Posts: 12
Location: Beighton, Sheffield

PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for further reply Lewis and additional notes. I hadn't realised the front axle had freewheeling hubs on the L400. If this is the case then presumably in 4H they have to engage also, so would "Wheel Lock" not be displayed?

Still wanting to understand the full operation of the transfer case and VC diff. Earlier topic picks at it here *ED newbie not allowed to link!* ref post number 3679 then.  
But alas the photophucket links no longer work Sad

I'm trying to establish if there is a mechanical aspect to the centre diff "locking" or if the centre VC diff "lock" is merely it operating as per a normal VC-LSD with the clutch plates contacting each other to the point of limiting slip to near-zero.

Once "fried" a VC-LSD on an old RWD track car that used a Sierra XR4 diff. Turns out taking it on a drift day and slaughtering a stack of tyres was not something it agreed with!

I should think 4H will do just fine for aforementioned slope. The towing arrangement is unusual, it's actually a lightweight hillclimb car with integral A frame hitch. So all 4 wheels remain on the ground and there is no noseweight and less reaction from it.

Hoping to stick around here once I'm actually a Deli owner. Facebook seems busy, but forums and their search functionality is golden  Very Happy
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reliant-reviver



Joined: 10 May 2018
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Location: Beighton, Sheffield

PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy, that is my line of thinking regarding risking damaging it being low over such a short stretch (about 50 yards). But if there is something that won't appreciate any loading regardless of duration then I won't risk it.

I was more hoping to utlisize the low range, but alas that will not be possible without locking the centre diff in the process.

I suppose it's a case of using common sense for the situation, if traction is lost, knock it up a notch!
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Lewis
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

reliant-reviver wrote:
I hadn't realised the front axle had freewheeling hubs on the L400. If this is the case then presumably in 4H they have to engage also, so would "Wheel Lock" not be displayed?


Wheel Lock comes on when the Centre Diff is locked.  As mentioned in item three on my post above;  

Until you manually put it into diff lock then the Diff is not locked, otherwise it would not revert to 4H after the rear wheels regain traction, as mentioned in line two, when the Viscous coupling is engaged.
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andyman



Joined: 08 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 22:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lewis wrote:
reliant-reviver wrote:
I hadn't realised the front axle had freewheeling hubs on the L400. If this is the case then presumably in 4H they have to engage also, so would "Wheel Lock" not be displayed?


Wheel Lock comes on when the Centre Diff is locked.  As mentioned in item three on my post above;  

Until you manually put it into diff lock then the Diff is not locked, otherwise it would not revert to 4H after the rear wheels regain traction, as mentioned in line two, when the Viscous coupling is engaged.

Lewis, is that a typo, - do you not mean " otherwise it would not revert to 2H(ie 2WD) after the rear wheels regain traction"? due to the viscous coupling disengaging the front wheels. And surely it can't revert from one transfer gear to another without intervention from the driver, moving the lever? Slightly confused,
Andy.
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Lewis
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sort of a typo I guess. It will still be in 4H but in 2WD.  Smile

Read item two above.

NB: If searching on t'internet for Super Select info don't confuse the Original Superselect, as used in Deli's and Paj's, with the newer Super Select II, as used in the L200.
Super Select II uses AWD in 4H all the time.

This is also worth reading:- https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car-advice/mitsubishis-super-select-4x4-system-explained/
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3323 Sharky



Joined: 21 Feb 2020
Posts: 7
Location: Chesterfield

PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 15:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

thats a good link, helped me understand properly.
thank you.
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