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L300 Not Starting, Fusible Link Contact Problem


 
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Strebor



Joined: 21 Dec 2019
Posts: 2
Location: Coventry

PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:05    Post subject: L300 Not Starting, Fusible Link Contact Problem Reply with quote

Just to add to the body of knowledge on here & a question.

My L300, 2.5TD, started to become unreliable by failing to start occassionally but becoming more frequent over a few months until it eventually refused to start. On turning the key to the the glow plug system appeared to work okay but turning it to the start position resulted in the dash lights dimming/going out and the starter not turning. Initially I thought this was a battery problem but it wasn't. Behind the steering fluid resevoir there is the glow plug solenoid and the starter relay (nothing else, I've seen pictures of other relays / solenoids here but my vehicle only has one glow plug solenoid and the starter relay). The starter solenoid has a Black/Yellow cable which rises to the battery area where it is connected to a Black/Blue cable into the loom (why change cable colours!). The black / blue cable appears at the starter relay and putting 12v onto this cable resulted in the starter spinning. The starter relay coil has a thin Black cable and Black/White cable, I could feel the relay switch when the ignition key was moved to the start position. The starter relay contact cables are Black/Blue & Black/Red, The Black/Red cable had 12v on it when I checked it with a multimeter, but, shorting out the relay contact cables (Black/Blue - Black/Red) did not cause the starter to turn. I discovered that there was no current behind the 12v on the Black/Red cable, it reads 12v but when you try to take some current out of it it drops to 0v. The Black/Red cable joins the Black/Blue cable into the loom together by the starter relay, the Black/Blue cable comes out of the loom by the battery (as noted previously it then "turns into" a Black/Yellow cable to the starter solenoid. I think the Black/Red cable comes out of the loom at the same point, by the battery, and joins into the fusible link. I removed the fusible link (that was difficult, 30 odd years to settle itself in), the contacts were in good condition but covered in a black tarnish which I removed, returned the fusible link back and it the starter now works perfectly.

So, the question, am I right, the Black/Red cable (+12v to the starter relay) comes from the fusible link? (seems odd, what looks like an 18A cable connected to a 100A(?) fusible link), or did my fiddling disturb something else which has fixed the problem? Does anyone know where the starter relay +12v comes from?

Phil
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jejoenje



Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 629
Location: Alloa, Scotland

PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 0:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting...! I'm sorry I can't really help as I've never had to go anywhere near "that side" of the electrickery... I can have a look tomorrow and try and take some photos of my set up, if that would help?
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Strebor



Joined: 21 Dec 2019
Posts: 2
Location: Coventry

PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 17:52    Post subject: Just a bit confused Reply with quote

as to where the starter relay gets its power from. I viewed a lot of stuff on this, the USA Deli forum and the general internet and I've seen numerous wiring diagrams and pictures but none of which I think match my setup exactly (cable colours etc). If the starter relay power was coming from the ignition switch then the part of that switch that goes "live" when the key is turned to the start position is Black/Red (the right colour) but a different diameter PLUS I'd have thought it would be connected to the coil side of the relay (to bring the relay in) and not the contact side. I do love my Deli, I've had her for four years now, but at times she's a difficult mistress.

Phil
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andyman



Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 4298
Location: Penrith, Cumbria

PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 23:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

You seem to understand electrics well, but if you can't work out how the existing wiring works, you may have to jerry-rig the starter with a high-current push-to-make switch, and thick cables, like many a 50's or 60's car had (and I think, Series Land Rovers). Take the live direct from the battery, ideally through a suitably high-rated fuse.
Not ideal, but it will get you going again.
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PinkPig
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Joined: 05 Aug 2004
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Location: Southampton, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine is doing exactly the same!

Was starting and running fine on the button.
Haven't used it for a week and yesterday it did the same - glow plug relay clicked on, but starter not turning.
I checked power to the bus bar and there isn't any - hence relay clicking on but not going off again as no load is being drawn.
When I turn the key to starter I get another relay click (I think starter solenoid?) then dash nothing (other than the clock going dim then off).
Batteries fully charged overnight and showing 13.6 volts.

Time for poking around all the connections with a multimeter. It had a replacement engine a few months ago so anything could have worked lose or need tightening now it's had a good shakedown.
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The PINK PIG!
1988 Delica L300 Star Wagon 2.5TD 5sp Manual.
A never ending camper/restoration project
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Project 2 - Campervan the sequel - 2016 restoration, welding, respray, new interior, vertical pop...
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PinkPig
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 19:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay, found the issue on mine.
Glow plugs are working, that was a false reading I think (or something else that is intermittent).

So starter problem is a continuity issue with the cable from the starter switch barrell and the starter solenoid.
Power is getting to the switch and back out again to the black/yellow cable.
But when the cable pops out of the loom by the battery there is no power.
Sticking 12v on it energises the solenoid and it starts.
Photos here of the suspect cable.
1. Black with yellow stripe off the back of the ignition barrel
2. Connector for same cable next to battery - disconnected in the picture where I connected it to the battery to turn over the engine.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/CcTTuFt4W4KiKwrn8

So anyone know any other connectors en route. I found one behind the dashboard, but suspect another somewhere in the loom which may have been disturbed with the engine change.

I'm just going to run another cancel to bypass if I can't find the fault.
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The PINK PIG!
1988 Delica L300 Star Wagon 2.5TD 5sp Manual.
A never ending camper/restoration project
Project 1 - Pop-top camper conversion 2011-2015
Project 2 - Campervan the sequel - 2016 restoration, welding, respray, new interior, vertical pop...
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NikTheGreek



Joined: 10 Dec 2016
Posts: 198
Location: Trikala, Greece

PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 23:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi PinkPig.

According to the diagram of the starting circuit, the BY(Black Yellow) cable goes from the ignition switch to the starter relay
and then exits as BL (Black Blue) and goes to Starter through connection point B-71 which seems to be in the battery compartment.

I hope that this will help.
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Mitsos (my car) is a
LHD 4WD L300 1991
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English is not my native language, so please feel free to correct any wrong spelling or syntax errors in my posts.
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NikTheGreek



Joined: 10 Dec 2016
Posts: 198
Location: Trikala, Greece

PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 0:03    Post subject: Reply with quote


_________________
Mitsos (my car) is a
LHD 4WD L300 1991
4D56 TD - Manual Transmission.

English is not my native language, so please feel free to correct any wrong spelling or syntax errors in my posts.
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PinkPig
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 0:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found what I think is connector B-71 next to the battery in the photo I posted.
So maybe the relay has a fault.
I just wonder where the relay is?
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The PINK PIG!
1988 Delica L300 Star Wagon 2.5TD 5sp Manual.
A never ending camper/restoration project
Project 1 - Pop-top camper conversion 2011-2015
Project 2 - Campervan the sequel - 2016 restoration, welding, respray, new interior, vertical pop...
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PinkPig
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks @Nic for the diagram. The diagram I was looking at doesn't have a relay. The cable goes straight to the solenoid.
I guess the relay is behind the drivers seat next to the glow plug relay.
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The PINK PIG!
1988 Delica L300 Star Wagon 2.5TD 5sp Manual.
A never ending camper/restoration project
Project 1 - Pop-top camper conversion 2011-2015
Project 2 - Campervan the sequel - 2016 restoration, welding, respray, new interior, vertical pop...
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NikTheGreek



Joined: 10 Dec 2016
Posts: 198
Location: Trikala, Greece

PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

PinkPig wrote:
I guess the relay is behind the drivers seat next to the glow plug relay.


Yes, it is.



I forgot to mention that these diagrams are in 1991 Supplement.
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Mitsos (my car) is a
LHD 4WD L300 1991
4D56 TD - Manual Transmission.

English is not my native language, so please feel free to correct any wrong spelling or syntax errors in my posts.
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PinkPig
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again.
Mine is October 1988 and I've found some things are as late 1987 and some as 1989+
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The PINK PIG!
1988 Delica L300 Star Wagon 2.5TD 5sp Manual.
A never ending camper/restoration project
Project 1 - Pop-top camper conversion 2011-2015
Project 2 - Campervan the sequel - 2016 restoration, welding, respray, new interior, vertical pop...
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PinkPig
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aha...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/CuicYG3nMt1kwmTt5
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The PINK PIG!
1988 Delica L300 Star Wagon 2.5TD 5sp Manual.
A never ending camper/restoration project
Project 1 - Pop-top camper conversion 2011-2015
Project 2 - Campervan the sequel - 2016 restoration, welding, respray, new interior, vertical pop...
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PinkPig
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update:

I got hold of another starter relay and installed it. That is working now, however still no power to the starter solenoid, or to the glow plugs, so looks like my fusable link is doing the same as Strebor/Phil. Having another look today with the multimeter. The fusable link may also have blown if something else had shorted out link the relay cooking or a glow plug going to earth. All guess work from comfort of indoors... ;-)
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The PINK PIG!
1988 Delica L300 Star Wagon 2.5TD 5sp Manual.
A never ending camper/restoration project
Project 1 - Pop-top camper conversion 2011-2015
Project 2 - Campervan the sequel - 2016 restoration, welding, respray, new interior, vertical pop...
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PinkPig
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 13:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not the fusable links. So something else in the loom.
Still no high current 12v to the starter/glow relays. Grrr!!
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The PINK PIG!
1988 Delica L300 Star Wagon 2.5TD 5sp Manual.
A never ending camper/restoration project
Project 1 - Pop-top camper conversion 2011-2015
Project 2 - Campervan the sequel - 2016 restoration, welding, respray, new interior, vertical pop...
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PinkPig
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Joined: 05 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 18:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fixed!
Notes for future forum readers:
Gave up with tracing a break in the loom and ran a new 12v into the high current side of the starter relay (same cable that also feeds the glow plug relay high side) and added extra fuses just in case the break shorts somewhere. Starter and glow plugs all working again, starts first time.
Just got to install the cable run properly now.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/NmhuWFgtRfo1nH6d9
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The PINK PIG!
1988 Delica L300 Star Wagon 2.5TD 5sp Manual.
A never ending camper/restoration project
Project 1 - Pop-top camper conversion 2011-2015
Project 2 - Campervan the sequel - 2016 restoration, welding, respray, new interior, vertical pop...
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