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Keefe Lifetime member
Joined: 09 Sep 2006 Posts: 1099 Location: Barnsley, Good Ol' Yorkshy
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 20:08 Post subject: Tyres, Wind Up, etc Scoobi |
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Anyone with any advice?
I've got a Delica but my brother in law hasn't!
He's got a P1 sti gobberly *beep* scooby doo.
My question on his behalf, sorry, does fitting different makes of tyres on the front effect his car/gearbox?
I say no, as long as they're the same size, eg 225/45R17 etc. As in rolling diameter, as in wind up as discussed on this forum many times.
A supplier/fitter has told him they have to be the same make! He just happens to have that particular make in by the way!!
Do/can Subarus suffer the same problems with diffs/gearboxes as discussed on here? (wind up)
He's only replacing the front pair as the rears are okay. (Diameters different 'cause of worn rears. Could this be a problem?)
Sorry Admin, I know it's not really Deli connected but any thoughts would be gratefully received.
Thank you
Keith |
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 20:08 Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join! |
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THE KICK INSIDE
Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 1592 Location: Staffordshire
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 20:20 Post subject: |
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I think there are a number of questions here...
The most important is HOW does the diff work, if its viscous then different size tyres is NOT a good idea - see the number of volvo xc's that have (literally) blown their centre diffs!
The other question is handling, certainly different tyres with different tread patterns and compounds will handle differently AND wear differently...now thats a pretty trick car and i would guess the whole drive/suspension setup was optimised fora particular tyre/pressure and it would be well advised to stick to that, however running different front and back tyres will certainly change the handling, perhaps for the worse, perhaps for the better - or more precisely to suit the drivers taste!
for instance a softer more grippy tyre on teh front will tend to decrease under steer on the entry to the bend and increase over steer on the exit etc -
I think if he's going to run scooby its a moot point as he is going to be changing tyres so often he may as well do it in sets, every one i know who has had them says the tyres cost more than the petrol - and they DRINK petrol!
just buy 4 and prepair to do the same in 4 weeks! 9as he WILL be playing....) _________________ A Delica - ITS LIKE A SWEDISH BRICK...ONLY BIGGER! |
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strangerover Lifetime member
Joined: 17 Oct 2006 Posts: 4357 Location: Ashton-in-Makerfield
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 21:42 Post subject: |
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my short answer...
buy 4 tryes the same and buy good ones..
I have had several Turbo nutter 4x4's
tyres make a huge difference to handling..
You MUST fot tyhe same size tyres front and rear as it has a VCU (Viscous Centre Diff)
Same brand front and rear is advisable purely for handling, its a 4WD with 200+ bhp and weighs less than 1200kgs!
The tyre shop guy may sound like he is trying it on and in one way he is,
but strictly speaking I think subaru would recomend the same
I know for sure that Porsche recommend replacing all 4 tyres even if you only need 1 due to the difference in rolling diameter and the effect this can have on the electonic traction control etc. _________________ Regards
Mark |
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THE KICK INSIDE
Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 1592 Location: Staffordshire
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 21:47 Post subject: |
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didn't realise they wer THAT light...explains why they bend so badly! _________________ A Delica - ITS LIKE A SWEDISH BRICK...ONLY BIGGER! |
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Keefe Lifetime member
Joined: 09 Sep 2006 Posts: 1099 Location: Barnsley, Good Ol' Yorkshy
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 22:24 Post subject: |
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Thanks for that guys, I'll print off what you've said and leave it with him.
The 200bhp you mention is nearer 370bhp. It's the one with the water sprays on the intercooler and it's chipped and messed with.
It's fast, grippy,uncomfortable and VERY noisey!
The Bridgestones he has on at the moment are like semi slicks on the outer edges but do grip well.
When I say it's fast, it is if I drive it. I go into nutter mode when I get the wheel in my hand!! He's quite a steady driver and values his licence. (He's an HGV driver so needs it)
I'll tell him to get the couple of new identical Bridgestones that he's ordered and fit them on the rear, putting the older ones on the front.
They're costing him £115 each fitted.
The reason I asked the question in the first place was because I had heard about the volvo gearboxes going into orbit when owners had put the new spare on with three worn tyres.
Many Thanks again.
keefe on behalf of Mick |
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THE KICK INSIDE
Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 1592 Location: Staffordshire
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 22:30 Post subject: |
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yeh the volvo thing is true, but the 'spare' IS a space saver....
the issue is that a viscous diff basically use hydraulic fluid (ATF) and the sheer forces generate heat a LOT of heat....and if the tyre sizes are different....you get continual sheer...and LOTS of heat builds up....
but if your driving near the edge and two of the tyres are lower grip and a re spinning all the time...its a similar story....
hope that helps! _________________ A Delica - ITS LIKE A SWEDISH BRICK...ONLY BIGGER! |
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Bob Ellison Lifetime member
Joined: 14 Sep 2007 Posts: 388 Location: North Yorkshire
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 22:45 Post subject: |
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Please forgive my ignorance. Would this apply to a Delica?
I've got two new front tyres (Federal, put on by the dealer) and two near naff rear tyres (Jap Dunlop) which I want to replace with BFGs.
Is this posible or should I budget for 4 BFGs?
:D _________________ 1994 L400 SE (Black)
1 Labrador lad (chocolate)
1 Labrador Girl (Yellow)
MDOCUK LTM No 101
POCUK LTM No 19 |
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THE KICK INSIDE
Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 1592 Location: Staffordshire
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 22:51 Post subject: |
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in a word...yes... _________________ A Delica - ITS LIKE A SWEDISH BRICK...ONLY BIGGER! |
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strangerover Lifetime member
Joined: 17 Oct 2006 Posts: 4357 Location: Ashton-in-Makerfield
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 22:53 Post subject: |
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its always better to have a set of matching tyres....
on sports cars its more critical due to the fact that the driver is most likely to be driving on the edge !
the Delica is most likely to be driven for comfort not speed....
or put another way....
don't worry too much, just try and stick to all the same type...
e.g. all A/T Tyres or all M/T or all road bias...
having M/T at one end and road tyres at the other would not help traction _________________ Regards
Mark |
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Bob Ellison Lifetime member
Joined: 14 Sep 2007 Posts: 388 Location: North Yorkshire
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 23:08 Post subject: |
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Thanks guys. :D
They are all ATs.
It's just that I was hoping to get two BFGs now and two later when the Federals have worn.
I don't really want to get two more Federals and I don't want to waste the new ones that the dealer put on (I have lived in Yorkshire too long ).
:D _________________ 1994 L400 SE (Black)
1 Labrador lad (chocolate)
1 Labrador Girl (Yellow)
MDOCUK LTM No 101
POCUK LTM No 19 |
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chiefie
Joined: 25 May 2004 Posts: 2163 Location: fleetwood lancashire
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 13:39 Post subject: |
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hi bob,
the main problem people get when replacing just 2 tyres on the L400's is when changing back into 2WD from 4WD, the gears in the transfer box struggle to line up and often it takes a bit of tooing and froing to get out of 4WD.
as for diff wind up, it doesn't happen on an L400 due to the centre diff
hth
(p.s. its a heat sensitive silicone fluid in the centre diff, not ATF ) _________________ delicarik@hotmail.co.uk |
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Bob Ellison Lifetime member
Joined: 14 Sep 2007 Posts: 388 Location: North Yorkshire
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 14:19 Post subject: |
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chiefie wrote: |
hi bob,
the main problem people get when replacing just 2 tyres on the L400's is when changing back into 2WD from 4WD, the gears in the transfer box struggle to line up and often it takes a bit of tooing and froing to get out of 4WD.
as for diff wind up, it doesn't happen on an L400 due to the centre diff
hth |
Thanks Rick. :D
So... the front tyres are new (about 1000 miles), the rear tyres are just about worn out. Would I be best getting two Federals (same as front) for the rear or can I put two BFGs on the rear?
Or... do I need four new tyres?
:D _________________ 1994 L400 SE (Black)
1 Labrador lad (chocolate)
1 Labrador Girl (Yellow)
MDOCUK LTM No 101
POCUK LTM No 19 |
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strangerover Lifetime member
Joined: 17 Oct 2006 Posts: 4357 Location: Ashton-in-Makerfield
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 22:12 Post subject: |
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chiefie wrote: |
hi bob,
the main problem people get when replacing just 2 tyres on the L400's is when changing back into 2WD from 4WD, the gears in the transfer box struggle to line up and often it takes a bit of tooing and froing to get out of 4WD.
as for diff wind up, it doesn't happen on an L400 due to the centre diff
hth
(p.s. its a heat sensitive silicone fluid in the centre diff, not ATF ) |
Now I don't get how that is possible...
the Super Select uses a VCU centre diff NOT and open diff, it will not get wind up I guess but it could heat / over heat the VCU ? _________________ Regards
Mark |
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THE KICK INSIDE
Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 1592 Location: Staffordshire
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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 14:27 Post subject: |
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That is the issue you get with swedish bricks and they use viscous coupling...for what its worth, i dunno what the effect of goign offroad with dfferent sized tyres would be wit ha locked centre diff...theoretically it should wind up, but the wind up would come out as tyre slip on the loose surface i guess..Can't be 'optimal' though I guess... _________________ A Delica - ITS LIKE A SWEDISH BRICK...ONLY BIGGER! |
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chiefie
Joined: 25 May 2004 Posts: 2163 Location: fleetwood lancashire
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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 17:34 Post subject: |
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strangerover wrote: |
Now I don't get how that is possible...
the Super Select uses a VCU centre diff NOT and open diff, it will not get wind up I guess but it could heat / over heat the VCU ? |
theoretically yes, but i have never come across it yet, and they have used this system for many years. if it was possible that it would overheat, mitsi would have made it possible to change the fluid, but you can't! _________________ delicarik@hotmail.co.uk |
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andyj
Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2412 Location: up norf
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Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:27 Post subject: |
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had different sized tyres front and back on mine
215/70/15 front and 225/80/15 back
was fine in 2WD, then i decided to put it in 4WD lots of creaking and groaning underneath the car and big loss of power, had to do 1500 revs just to move
then BANG something gave and it switched into 4WD... paniced and shoved it in 2WD again...same thing... then loud BANG and it was fine
after that i shit myself and got 4 new tyres, been fine 2WD to 4WD since (and no teeth or anything in the diffs/ tranfer box thank god!!) |
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andyj
Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2412 Location: up norf
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Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:28 Post subject: |
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<<<< you can see the old tyres on my pic.. look how small the fronts are |
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Lewis Site Admin
Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 16299 Location: Huddersfield
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Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:59 Post subject: |
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andyj wrote: |
<<<< you can see the old tyres on my pic.. look how small the fronts are |
Now where did I put that 8x magnifying glass _________________
Copyright is retained for all my photos. Please don't copy them without asking permission
Do not blindly go where the path may lead you. Go where there is no path and leave a trail that others may follow!
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andyj
Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2412 Location: up norf
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Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 16:24 Post subject: |
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ill buy you one for christmas mate :D
seriously tho you can see it the fronts are very skinny compared to the backs and check out the clearance on the wheel arch |
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THE KICK INSIDE
Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 1592 Location: Staffordshire
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Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 21:41 Post subject: |
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You know Andy I had similar when i first got the bus - with (roughly - new fronts slightly worn backs) the same sized tyres on it - scare the ...out of me!, once since going from 4WD-2WD of the move it has also engaged locked centre diff with NO lights on the dash (noticeable due to mega rubish cornering in the carpark!) - i think thats a symptom of a not much used 4WD system getting stuck in a 'weird' place and actually going locked centre diff! _________________ A Delica - ITS LIKE A SWEDISH BRICK...ONLY BIGGER! |
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